 | SBD Dauntless Discussion Group| Aviation Discuss SBD Dauntless Discussion Group in the World War II - Aviation forums; Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ
Originally Posted by syscom3
Also, wasnt it fowler flaps that increased wing area?.
All flaps increase ... |
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09-14-2005, 06:12 PM
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#106 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 1,178
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ Quote: |
Originally Posted by syscom3
Also, wasnt it fowler flaps that increased wing area?.
| All flaps increase wing area when deployed - fowler, split, zap, or slat..... | ? They normaly increase lift and drag.
A fowler opens and extends creating more wing area.
Plane flaps, like those on the P-51 and F4U just pivot down, extending the curve of the wing but not wing area.
With split flaps, just the underside pivots down and uses the void created to draw the air down creating the airflow effect of both added area and extended curve for the wing.
Slats do extend the area a little but mostly control and smoth the air flow.
Spoilers (Zap) are mid chord (depending on purpose) and kill lift/change airflow, again depending on purpose but they open out of the skin without adding area.
Only Fowler flaps add phisical area, all other flaps just create the effect of added area but slats kill lift (except rare cases like the P-38 and P-47 where they impead supersonic airflow and restore lift).
wmaxt | 
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09-14-2005, 06:20 PM
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#107 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
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Country:  | Quote: |
Originally Posted by wmaxt Quote: |
Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ Quote: |
Originally Posted by syscom3
Also, wasnt it fowler flaps that increased wing area?.
| All flaps increase wing area when deployed - fowler, split, zap, or slat..... | ? They normaly increase lift and drag.
A fowler opens and extends creating more wing area.
Plane flaps, like those on the P-51 and F4U just pivot down, extending the curve of the wing but not wing area.
wmaxt | Actually they do increase wing area - as you stated they extend the curve of the wing. Add in that "curve" and the wing area will increase. And you are correct, lift and drag are increased
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09-14-2005, 06:27 PM
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#108 | | Banned
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| FB, if one measure the distance to the from the leading edge to the hinge line (a) and then the distance from the hinge line to the trailing edge of the flap (b), one arrives at the same total distance (c).
a + b = c, not c' | |
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09-14-2005, 06:43 PM
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#109 | | Senior Member
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Originally Posted by KraziKanuK FB, if one measure the distance to the from the leading edge to the hinge line (a) and then the distance from the hinge line to the trailing edge of the flap (b), one arrives at the same total distance (c).
a + b = c, not c' | He's technicaly correct. The wing flap exposes a couple of inches as the hinge point rotates. In other words the point the flap starts in the up position and as it rotates it exposes some ammount of the inner curve of the flap changing the equasion to A+B+C=D and then you get A+B +B'+C =D'
B being the flap reveal line at the edge of the wing and flap in the up position, and B' being the new point at the wing edge, flap meeting point.
It becomes obvious if you mark a door hinge (both the part on the frame and the door) and then close the door and the marks will now be in different places.
I hope I was clear.
wmaxt | |
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09-14-2005, 06:56 PM
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#110 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
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Originally Posted by KraziKanuK FB, if one measure the distance to the from the leading edge to the hinge line (a) and then the distance from the hinge line to the trailing edge of the flap (b), one arrives at the same total distance (c).
a + b = c, not c' | I know what you'rre trying to say and how it may seem but you're measuring the angle of flap with relationship to the flap bay. Measure the entire camber....
Maybe I should of said lifting area insted of wing area 
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09-14-2005, 07:09 PM
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#111 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
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Country: | Copied the drawing from a link I had in my "conehead" file, this explains the effects of a split flap and then moving it to the rear - should of looked at this to start with http://naca.larc.nasa.gov/reports/19...i?page0001.gif
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09-14-2005, 07:48 PM
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#112 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
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| OK Leonard, this is the end of the discussion.
I asked you origionaly if these claims had been compared to Japanese records, and the answer is clear. No they havent. So I guess we will have to put an asterisk around your datafile as saying it needs further analysis. I'd say about 1/5th to 1/4th of the claims could be suspect.
Now since you seem to be a scholar of sorts, I challenge you to locate Japanese records and sources and compare it to each and every claim. It would make one heck of a good book when youre done. Maybe you could submit it to peer review and have it published.
Now if youre wondering why I put such an emphisis on the time each kill occured...... its simple. Back then, navigation over the sea was dead reckoning. Plot board, compass heading and elapsed time. All naval pilots kept a close eye on the time, cause if they didnt, they would get lost real fast.
End of discussion, over and out.
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09-14-2005, 07:52 PM
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#113 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia
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Country: | I certainly don't need a lecture on navagation at or over sea. I suspect I probably know a little bit more about naval aviation doctrine and practices than you.
If you wish to pursue the Japaneses records, as I stated long ago, please be my guest.
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hmmm ... I wonder what this switch does ... | |
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09-14-2005, 10:01 PM
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#114 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
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Country: | Bottom line, I think there is overwhelming evidence that Swede Vejesta shot down 3 Zeros in an SBD, his gunner and other aircraft confirmed it, he probably out maneuvered his opponents by using flaps and high Gs - the man knew what he was doing because he went on the be a double ace. Enough Said?!?
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09-15-2005, 02:09 AM
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#115 | | Senior Member
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Country:  | And the ground crew would have seen the oil on his windscreen, engagemnt and hit would be a definate.
__________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004  To those in that club. | |
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09-16-2005, 04:35 PM
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#116 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
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Country:  | I dont see why he could not have shot down 3.
__________________  US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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09-16-2005, 06:37 PM
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#117 | | Senior Member
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| Its possible, but in my humble opinion, improbable. I could accept one kill, but no way two and three.
My opinons only.
I just dont see where the Dauntless would have the power to maneuver around like that with the Zero.
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09-16-2005, 08:07 PM
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#118 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
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Originally Posted by syscom3 Its possible, but in my humble opinion, improbable. I could accept one kill, but no way two and three.
My opinons only.
I just dont see where the Dauntless would have the power to maneuver around like that with the Zero. | If you manage your energy better than your opponent, power is irrelevant
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09-17-2005, 05:51 AM
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#119 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
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Country: | Yeap and the wierdest things happen in combat anyhow. The will to live can help you accomplish many things. I dont doubt his claim, I dont see a reason to.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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09-17-2005, 08:20 AM
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#120 | | Minister of Whoopass
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi
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Country: | Why dont we drop the **** ing subject about Swede before I blow my **** ing top.... I know the truth, and if some lame ass wants to deny to truth, fine.....
But I will not put up with syscom calling him a liar again......
Do u hear me???? Whether or not u think its true, I KNOW ITS TRUE.... He was called "Uncle Swede" in my house, and if u decide ur going to insult his memory, honesty and intergrity, we are going to have BIG problems syscom....
Ur opinion is irrelevant to the truth in this matter, as the truth is known and confirmed by others WAYYYY more enlightened than urself....
Understand???
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