SBD Dauntless Discussion Group

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Yes lets drop this subject now.

[syscom3]

The US Army operated a version of the SBD for awhile in the SW Pacific. I think it was called the A-24. From what I can gather, it didnt perform well compared to the navy version.

Anyone have some information on how such an aircraft can see service in the same part of the world, but have performance like night and day? The only reason I can gather is the types of land targets it would attack were far and few between. Perhaps defended well enough to not make it worthwhile to use this plane.

[FLYBOYJ]

Just saw one at Wright-Patterson, Here's a history....

Southwest Pacific Service in 1942
In the days before Pearl Harbor, when war appeared imminent, the Army Air Forces transported the 27th Bombardment Group to the Philippines from Louisiana with its aircraft to follow later. The 27th flew the A-24, the Army Air Forces' first dive bomber. In light of the German Air Force dive bombing successes in Poland and France, the Army Air Corps acquired the US Navy's SBD-3 "Dauntless" dive bomber which was already in production. The A-24 was the SBD-3 without the tail hook and with either a solid or a pneumatic tail wheel.
When war broke out the 52 aircraft being sent to the Philippines were diverted to Australia to be assembled there. Most of the 27th's pilots were flown back to Australia to assemble their airplanes and fly them to the Philippines. The enlisted men, however, remained in the Philippines and became members of the 1st Provisional Air Corps Regiment, fighting the Japanese ground troops. All of the survivors were subjected to the Bataan Death March

The A-24s that arrived at Brisbane, Australia, in late December had been heavily used in Louisiana during maneuvers in September 1941 and still carried Louisiana mud on their wheels. In addition, they were missing trigger motors and solenoids, which prevented the firing of their forward guns, and the rear gun mounts broke easily. Many aircraft also had worn-out tires. The A-24s could not go into combat in the Philippines until these problems were corrected.

The Australians either machined the necessary solenoids or they fixed firing handles for the guns. The rear gun mounts were strengthened and Australian truck tires were used in place of American aircraft tires. By this time, however, the battle for the Philippines was almost over. The 27th Bombardment Group was slowly rebuilt into three squadrons, the 16th, 17th, and 91st. The 91st, equipped with 15 repaired A-24s, was the only squadron capable of flying to Java. They flew first to Darwin, Australia, and then to Malang, Java, arriving there on 17 February 1942. Out of the 15 Aircraft that began the trip to Java, only 7 were available for combat. The others were lost in accidents or were in need of repairs.

Over the next 10 days the 91st flew heroically against the best aircraft the Japanese possessed. The A-24s, however' had worn-out engines, no armor plate, no self sealing fuel tanks, and received no fighter protection. The pilots referred to them as "Blue Rock Clay Pigeons." The 91st squadron, nevertheless, attacked enemy ships in the harbor and the Japanese air base at Bali, as well as Japanese ships in the waters near Java, damaging and sinking numerous enemy ships. Two of the A-24s were shot down and three so badly holed they could no longer fly. In early March the order came to evacuate Java, ending a brief but valiant effort.

In New Guinea in 1942 the A-24 was relegated to noncombat missions after five of seven airplanes were lost and one was badly damaged on a mission over Buna, New Guinea. The A-24s were regarded by many pilots as too slow, too short-ranged, and too poorly armed.

Many of the remaining A-24s were used in the U.S. as training aircraft or to tow targets for aerial gunnery training.

Suggested Reading:
William H. Bartsch Doomed at the Start
Walter D. Edmonds, They Fought With What They Had
George C. Kenney, General Kenney Reports

SPECIFICATIONS
Span: 41 ft. 6 in.
Length: 33 ft. 0 in.
Height: 12 ft. 11 in.
Weight: 10,200 lbs. maximum (with 1,200 lbs. of bombs)
Armament: Two .50 caliber machine guns in the nose and twin .30 caliber flexible machine guns in rear cockpit; In Java, the A-24s carried Dutch 660 lb. bombs on the centerline and 110 lb. bombs on each wing.
Engine: Wright R-1829-52 of 1,000 hp.
Cost: $38,293

PERFORMANCE
Maximum speed: 250 mph/217 knots
Cruising speed: 173 mph/150 knots
Range: 950 miles with 1,200 lbs. of bombs
Service Ceiling: 26,000 ft.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Most of them were regulated for training duties even though about 953 were built.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Well damn your post got in before mine. Good info FlyboyJ

[Wildcat]

Very interesting info.

[syscom3]

Did the Army specify no self-sealing tanks? Or did the Navy version have the same thing?

[FLYBOYJ]

I would guess in they were ordered without combat equipment.

[Nonskimmer]

In any event, that was a very informative post. Good stuff FJ.

[Gnomey]

Yes, nice info FBJ.

[FLYBOYJ]

Thanks guys! I think the armor and self sealing tanks would of been considered GFE - Government Furnished Equipment, installed by the government at the contractor or at a later date.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

That is how a lot of things are done on aircraft even today.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

That is how a lot of things are done on aircraft even today.

Yep - it's amazing how some things never changed. When I was building P-3s, the engines, Propellers, landing gear, most avionics and APU were all GFE. Sometimes we would be required to leave some of the avionics off so the Navy would itstall them at a later date.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

We have contracters from all different companies come in and install stuff on our aircraft plus the Army has its own stuff that we put on that Sikorsky does not install.

[syscom3]

I know hindsight is 20/20 vision, but you would think that after 2 years of war, all planes in the AAF would have been retrofitted with the self sealing tanks!