 | Second opinions needed about some ww2 aircraft remarks..| Aviation Discuss Second opinions needed about some ww2 aircraft remarks.. in the World War II - Aviation forums; Originally Posted by cheddar cheese
P-47N, P-38L and Fw-190D are best.
I agree. The P-38L and ... |
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06-17-2005, 03:30 PM
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#16 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 1,178
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Originally Posted by cheddar cheese P-47N, P-38L and Fw-190D are best. | I agree. The P-38L and Fw-190/Ta-152 sort of define the catagory but I think the F4U-4 and Spitfire are right there too. The P-47N to me is a probable but not quite sure.
The P-51 is very over rated though it's a good, competitive long range fighter. The P-51s only outstanding feature as a single engine fighter was it's range.
wmaxt | 
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06-17-2005, 03:39 PM
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#17 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 1,178
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Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ Quote: |
Originally Posted by wmaxt Quote: |
Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ The SU-27 doesn't have a 101-to-0 kill record  | | Yep - we talked about that on another thread. I work at the US Air Force Academy and heard a few things (rumours) about this;
1. The Indian pilots were just better than the US guys sent over there.
2. The US guys were tired and some were at one point sick.
3. The Indians kept violating the "hardeck" (I don't believe that)
4. The US guys played "rope-a-dope."
5. The US guys just got their butts kicked!
I think that 1 and 5 were the case, but that's my own opinion! | Parts of the evaluation were that
1. We need more variation in our agressor squadrons - we've fallen into Playing not fighting.
2. our radars were not giving us the advantages were used to/relied on.
3. the IAF flies and trains more than we do.
Bottom line we got complacent and lost.
wmaxt | |
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06-17-2005, 03:41 PM
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#18 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,537
Country:  | Quote: |
Originally Posted by wmaxt Quote: |
Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ Quote: |
Originally Posted by wmaxt Quote: |
Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ The SU-27 doesn't have a 101-to-0 kill record | | Yep - we talked about that on another thread. I work at the US Air Force Academy and heard a few things (rumours) about this;
1. The Indian pilots were just better than the US guys sent over there.
2. The US guys were tired and some were at one point sick.
3. The Indians kept violating the "hardeck" (I don't believe that)
4. The US guys played "rope-a-dope."
5. The US guys just got their butts kicked!
I think that 1 and 5 were the case, but that's my own opinion! | Parts of the evaluation were that
1. We need more variation in our agressor squadrons - we've fallen into Playing not fighting.
2. our radars were not giving us the advantages were used to/relied on.
3. the IAF flies and trains more than we do.
Bottom line we got complacent and lost.
wmaxt | I agree!
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06-17-2005, 03:45 PM
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#19 | | He who does not skim
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,957
Country:  | Our boys used to do a lot more training than they do currently, and they were pretty damn good too. They still are, but the edge has started to dull a bit. The budget cuts have hurt in so many ways. Training is something you do not want to sacrifice! | |
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06-17-2005, 05:00 PM
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#20 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 714
| Since we're thoroughly off topic now, which would you all consider the better air to air fighter, The F-14 or F-15.
I have always thought the F-15 is better but there are quite a few people that claim that the newer F-14's are better.
So what do you think?
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06-18-2005, 05:52 AM
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#21 | | Konfused with a 'K'
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Turin, Italy
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Country:  | The F-15. I dont know jack **** about modern fighters but id say the F-15E.
__________________  with my one last gaping breath id apologise for bleeding on your shirt... | |
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06-18-2005, 06:10 AM
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#22 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,051
Country:  | The F-15 is better. And how could you think the Fw-190D is amongst the best, when you don't include the Spitfire. 
__________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004  To those in that club. | |
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06-18-2005, 07:43 AM
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#23 | | He who does not skim
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,957
Country: | Yep, the F-15. It's just an all around more versatile aircraft, and has more manoeuvrability. | |
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06-18-2005, 08:25 AM
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#24 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere near nothing.
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| The only modern aircraft that could stand up against an F-15 is the Su-27, everyone forgets the modern Russian aircraft! But for a good multi purpose aircraft I would have to stick with the Eagle.
I don't agree that the Mustang was overrated, It didn't get a good reputation for nothing. It was the main front line fighter of the US during WW2, like the Eagle is now, and it was a more than capable aircraft that could perform any task well. Other aircraft may have been a better dog fighter, faster, more manouverable, or better in an attack role but none of them outlived the Mustang, the USAF were still using a variant of it up until the late 70's.
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06-18-2005, 09:13 AM
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#25 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 533
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ Quote: |
Originally Posted by wmaxt Quote: |
Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ The SU-27 doesn't have a 101-to-0 kill record | I think it's higher than that these days. Something I have to interject though my dad subscribes to "Air Force Magazine" In war games with the Indian Air Force with the SU-27s they won half or better in the last set of games. This has caused the Air Force to start examining the training, flight hours, radars etc of the airforce F-15, F-16 et al. to correct the posibility of the F-15 losing it's No. 1 status.
wmaxt | Yep - we talked about that on another thread. I work at the US Air Force Academy and heard a few things (rumours) about this;
1. The Indian pilots were just better than the US guys sent over there.
2. The US guys were tired and some were at one point sick.
3. The Indians kept violating the "hardeck" (I don't believe that)
4. The US guys played "rope-a-dope."
5. The US guys just got their butts kicked!
I think that 1 and 5 were the case, but that's my own opinion! | I heard that the US Air Force deliberately put their own fighters at a disadvantage (something to do with radars) so that the F15s would look bad and they could turn to congress and say "this proves the F15 is becoming obsolete so we need more F22s as soon as possible" | |
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06-18-2005, 09:35 AM
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#26 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,537
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Smokey Quote: |
Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ Quote: |
Originally Posted by wmaxt Quote: |
Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ The SU-27 doesn't have a 101-to-0 kill record | I think it's higher than that these days. Something I have to interject though my dad subscribes to "Air Force Magazine" In war games with the Indian Air Force with the SU-27s they won half or better in the last set of games. This has caused the Air Force to start examining the training, flight hours, radars etc of the airforce F-15, F-16 et al. to correct the posibility of the F-15 losing it's No. 1 status.
wmaxt | Yep - we talked about that on another thread. I work at the US Air Force Academy and heard a few things (rumours) about this;
1. The Indian pilots were just better than the US guys sent over there.
2. The US guys were tired and some were at one point sick.
3. The Indians kept violating the "hardeck" (I don't believe that)
4. The US guys played "rope-a-dope."
5. The US guys just got their butts kicked!
I think that 1 and 5 were the case, but that's my own opinion! | I heard that the US Air Force deliberately put their own fighters at a disadvantage (something to do with radars) so that the F15s would look bad and they could turn to congress and say "this proves the F15 is becoming obsolete so we need more F22s as soon as possible" | Yep - That's what I meant in comment 4. Once and a while I hear talk of this at the academy from newly assigned instructors.
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06-18-2005, 09:44 AM
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#27 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
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Originally Posted by cheddar cheese The F-15. I dont know jack s**t about modern fighters but id say the F-15E. | During the Gulf war an F-15 caught an Iraqi Super Felon helicopter hovering above the desert. With no gun available, the WSO got an IR signature on the and the crew then proceded to drop a laser guided 500 pound bomb on the helicopter! Needless to say the F-15E crew was credited with a kill! 
Could you imangine being in that helicopter? 
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06-18-2005, 10:33 AM
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#28 | | Konfused with a 'K'
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Turin, Italy
Posts: 20,412
Country: | I always knew there was more than one wahy to kill a cat
__________________ with my one last gaping breath id apologise for bleeding on your shirt... | |
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06-18-2005, 10:35 AM
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#29 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,051
Country: | Can't be much worse than an A-10 chewing you to pieces with it's cannon.
__________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004 To those in that club. | |
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06-18-2005, 11:16 AM
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#30 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
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Originally Posted by plan_D Can't be much worse than an A-10 chewing you to pieces with it's cannon. | I don't know D, If I had a choice I think I'll take the A-10 cannon, I think there's a slight margin of surviving
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