Small airforces going to war: what would you do.

[Marcel]

Imagine you're in charge of defence in one of the smaller countries, just before the start of WWII. It's 1936. What would your policy be to build an airforce for Denmark/The Netherlands/Belgium (pick your favorite). What equipment (aircraft etc.) would you buy?

Keep in mind that:

1. you are neutral
2. therefore some equipment are under embargo and thus out of your reach
3. you don't know who your enemy will be
4. you have just a limited amount of money to spend
5. you have to keep your economy up and running
6. an airforce not only does air defence, but also ground support

[timshatz]

Make friends with a big neighbor with a big air force.

[Marcel]

Like Romania and Hungarian did????

[Juha]

Tim
not so simple, Baltic countries agreed after hard Soviet, which had very big AF, pressure to give to it AF bases on their soils. Stalin also gave his "Bolsevic's word of honour" that Soviet Union had not any other demands on them but in the end all Baltic states ended up being part of SU, tens of thousends Balts found themself in Siberia and few tens of thousends others were excecuted in early 40s, more died latter. Finns on the other hand rejected the Soviet demands even if SU was the only neighbour with large AF and were attacked. But in the end we remained independed and our personal losses when compared to population were smaller, even if we lost nearly 100 000 killed (98% of them soldiers) out of population of 3½ million, than those of Estonia.

Juha

[timshatz]

Was thinking more along the lines of Canada or Mexico. Or, more like the Netherlands or Belgium could have with France.

But, your perspective depends on your geography. Finland had the Soviets on one side and the Germans to the South. Not exactly a happy accident of geography. In that case, making friends with somebody bigger was not an option.

Point made.

[Juha]

Tim
Finland's geographical position wasn't the worst one, look Poland for ex., now they were in really difficult position.

Juha

[Juha]

Marcel A fast answer
take a careful look around
buy in 1938 P-36s/Hawk-75As, as many as one can and some Curtiss Wright CW-21s as interceptors.
buy 15 Blenheims or Marylands or if already available DB-7s as light bombers but mostly as LR recce a/c.
buy 30 best dive bomber type available or 20 best night bomber type available.

And lot of 40mm Bofors and 20mm guns and Vickers new 75/76,2 mm heavy AA guns with enough predictors.

Juha

[tomo pauk]

The money spent for the heavy (7cm and bigger) AAA should've gone for the fighter arm. In my not-so-humble opinion.

[Juha]

Hello TP
now according the Finnish experience during the wars, heavy AA wasn't useless. Also it was the only realistic answer to night bombing in 39-40 period and even after that a while only realistic answer for small nations, AI radars were so secret. And I'm thinking on a large country like Finland, fighters could not be everywhere if they were not ineffectively dispersed in "penny-packets" around the country.

Vickers gun was good but not best but being rejected by British Army it was free for abroad sells. Same to predictors, they were the best Finnish have before we got 88s and its predictors.

Juha

[vikingBerserker]

I think I would go with Fokker D.XXIss & G.1's

[Soren]

Problem with this scenario is that in the event of war you're screwed nomatter what, Denmark, Holland & Belgium simply don't have the manpower to hold on for themselves, they need big allies.

[vikingBerserker]

Originally Posted by Soren

Problem with this scenario is that in the event of war you're screwed nomatter what, Denmark, Holland & Belgium simply don't have the manpower to hold on for themselves, they need big allies.

So if Norway invaded Denmark, Denmark could only win if they had big allies?????

[GrauGeist]

Originally Posted by vikingBerserker

So if Norway invaded Denmark, Denmark could only win if they had big allies?????

I think that's in reference to a large belligerant attacking it's smaller neighbor.

A war between Norway and Denmark would be on a much leveller playing field than it was when Germany came knocking on Norway and Denmark's door. Had Sweden teamed up with Norway and backed Denmark when Germany invaded, then that invasion may have turned out a little bit differently than it did.

[Marcel]

Originally Posted by timshatz

Was thinking more along the lines of Canada or Mexico. Or, more like the Netherlands or Belgium could have with France.

But, your perspective depends on your geography. Finland had the Soviets on one side and the Germans to the South. Not exactly a happy accident of geography. In that case, making friends with somebody bigger was not an option.

Point made.

True, it would have been better. But remember the time, the countries didn't want to get involved and believed they could stay out of it. Allying with one of the parties was the surest way to get into the war. Anyway, this would have been a political descision, while I would prefer this debate more technical. But it was a good point.

Originally Posted by Juha

Marcel A fast answer
take a careful look around
buy in 1938 P-36s/Hawk-75As, as many as one can and some Curtiss Wright CW-21s as interceptors.
buy 15 Blenheims or Marylands or if already available DB-7s as light bombers but mostly as LR recce a/c.
buy 30 best dive bomber type available or 20 best night bomber type available.

And lot of 40mm Bofors and 20mm guns and Vickers new 75/76,2 mm heavy AA guns with enough predictors.

Juha

Good ideas, the fighters have the same engine, thus making it more easy on you mechanics. Why a night bomber? I think strategic bombing would be a waste of time and resources for a country like this.

Originally Posted by tomo pauk

The money spent for the heavy (7cm and bigger) AAA should've gone for the fighter arm. In my not-so-humble opinion.

AAA guns are cheaper than aircraft, they are also less vulnerable. Aircraft need airfields which are also very vulnerable. AAA guns were quite effective. The Germans lost about 450 aircraft over the Netherlands in 1940, around 50 of them to Dutch fighters, the most of rest to Dutch AAA guns.

Originally Posted by vikingBerserker

I think I would go with Fokker D.XXIss & G.1's

Like the Dutch did. But these aircraft were rather slow and with the D.XXI under-armed. The G.1 was by no means cheap. But it was a multi-role and in that view, it could have been much more cost effective.

Originally Posted by Soren

Problem with this scenario is that in the event of war you're screwed nomatter what, Denmark, Holland & Belgium simply don't have the manpower to hold on for themselves, they need big allies.

Very true. So your tactic would have been to hold out as long as you can, beeing a pain in the a.. for the attacker, until "the others" will come and rescue you.

[Soren]

Originally Posted by vikingBerserker

So if Norway invaded Denmark, Denmark could only win if they had big allies?????

Norway invading Denmark ? Are you serious or is this a joke ?