Somebody explain this to me please - Aircraft of World War II

102first_hussars · 12-11-2005, 03:03 AM

What the **** is this?

the lancaster kicks ass · 12-11-2005, 03:15 AM

it's a model of a Finnish hawker hurricane, why??

102first_hussars · 12-11-2005, 03:20 AM

Thats why

DaveB.inVa · 12-11-2005, 03:31 AM

Well... the whole thing with Finland in WWII was sorta wierd. First they fought the Russians... then they fought with the Germans... then they fought against the Germans. So that might be why you feel a little wierd about seeing a once Axis country flying a Hurricane.

BUT WAIT!!! All that above has absolutely nothing to do with seeing a swastika on a Finnish aircraft!! That was their symbol from the beginning.

http://hkkk.fi/~yrjola/war/faf/hakaristi.html

the lancaster kicks ass · 12-11-2005, 03:36 AM

interestin, i always thought it was something to do with the nazi swastika.........

Gnomey · 12-11-2005, 05:46 AM

Interesting stuff Dave.

Jabberwocky · 12-11-2005, 05:47 AM

That is the hakaristi or hakenkreuze (hooked cross), and its been a Finnish military symbol since the beginning of the 20th century.

It is a traditional heraldic device in England, Russia, most of the Nordic states, Poland, Holland and Spain. It even crops up in ancient Trojan and Mesopotamian dig sites now and again. It is universally used in Japan to mark places of religious or spiritual importance. You see it on temples, maps and shrines all over Japan, particularly the Buddhist ones.

The swastika is a religious symbol used frequently in Hinduism and Buddhism and is also found in indigenous North American symbology. In Indonesia it is the symbol for 'all power', taken from animist beliefs of a single non-corporeal creator. It is actually a traditional symbol in a lot of Asian nations, China and Korea being chief among them.

Just because it was used by one regieme as their national symbol for 12 years, doesn't mean that we should recoil in horror every time we see it. To millions upon millions of people it has nothing to do with war, nazism or racism, and is actually a symbol of peace or religious devotion.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 12-11-2005, 06:31 AM

Yeap. The Finnish were using it well before the Nazi's did. Hell even the American Indians still use the symbol today. It does not mean anything bad at all, just people think that because of Hitler and the Nazi's.

That Hurricane you see up there Hussars is just a Finish plane and nothing more.

cheddar cheese · 12-11-2005, 06:43 AM

Same with the Fiat G.50

(Sorry, had to get that in

)

P38 Pilot · 12-11-2005, 08:07 AM

What does an Italian Plane have to do with a Finnish plane?

And im still confused about the Russo-Finnish War. I thought Finland declared an alliance with Germany but when they were conqured by Russia, they were out of the war. They still kept fighting?

Nonskimmer · 12-11-2005, 08:57 AM

Finland negotiated a separate peace with the Soviets and effectively dropped out of the war. They were never conquered by the Soviets.

If I'm not mistaken, the Latvian air force used the symbol of a red swastika for a time too, before they were annexed by the Soviet Union. Again, as was the case with Finland, it had nothing whatsoever to do with Nazism.

KraziKanuK · 12-11-2005, 09:46 AM

swastika history

http://history1900s.about.com/cs/swa...ikahistory.htm
http://www.ainurin.net/history/finnish_swastika.htm

One can find the swastika on WW1 a/c.

Even the zionists have their own swastika

Notice the orientation of the German swastika compare to the Finnish one

some trivia:

- Coca Cola in 1925 as a lucky watch fob promotion
http://www.dpjs.co.uk/files/swasticross_coke.gif
- 1916 logo for an Edmonton girls' hockey team
- American pilots used it on their planes when they fought for the French in World War One.
- it was the symbol for the Ladies Home Journal sponsored Girls' Club and the Boy Scouts.
- A town in Ontario was named Swastika in 1911 because of a lucky gold strike.
- During World War I, the swastika could even be found on the shoulder patches of the American 45th Division.

A link with various ethnic swastikas, http://www.bmezine.com/news/people/A10101/manwoman/

Nonskimmer · 12-11-2005, 10:02 AM

I'd never come across that Coca-Cola medallion before. Interesting.

cheddar cheese · 12-11-2005, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P38 Pilot

What does an Italian Plane have to do with a Finnish plane?

Finnish markings...

Aggie08 · 12-11-2005, 02:18 PM

It does look odd, not only because it's an allied plane with a swastika but because of the color scheme with the baby blue on white...

12-11-2005, 03:15 AM	#2
the lancaster kicks ass Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 19,945	it's a model of a Finnish hawker hurricane, why?? __________________ "Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy."

12-11-2005, 03:31 AM	#4
DaveB.inVa Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 224	Well... the whole thing with Finland in WWII was sorta wierd. First they fought the Russians... then they fought with the Germans... then they fought against the Germans. So that might be why you feel a little wierd about seeing a once Axis country flying a Hurricane. BUT WAIT!!! All that above has absolutely nothing to do with seeing a swastika on a Finnish aircraft!! That was their symbol from the beginning. http://hkkk.fi/~yrjola/war/faf/hakaristi.html __________________ Fighter pilots make movies.... Bomber pilots make history!

12-11-2005, 03:36 AM	#5
the lancaster kicks ass Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 19,945	interestin, i always thought it was something to do with the nazi swastika......... __________________ "Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy."

12-11-2005, 05:46 AM	#6
Gnomey "World Traveller" Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Royal Deeside/St Andrews, Scotland, UK Posts: 16,490	Interesting stuff Dave. __________________ "Success is not Final, Failure is not Fatal, it is the Courage to Continue that Counts" Sir Winston Churchill "To him the People of the World Largely owe the Freedom and Liberties they Enjoy Today" Enscription on Hugh Dowding's (AOC Fighter Command 1936-40) statue in London WW2 Talk: A WW2 Discussion Forum My Photo Collections on Flickr

12-11-2005, 06:31 AM	#8
DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crewchief Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany Posts: 34,060	Yeap. The Finnish were using it well before the Nazi's did. Hell even the American Indians still use the symbol today. It does not mean anything bad at all, just people think that because of Hitler and the Nazi's. That Hurricane you see up there Hussars is just a Finish plane and nothing more. __________________ fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"

12-11-2005, 05:47 AM	#7
Jabberwocky Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Japan Posts: 505	That is the hakaristi or hakenkreuze (hooked cross), and its been a Finnish military symbol since the beginning of the 20th century. It is a traditional heraldic device in England, Russia, most of the Nordic states, Poland, Holland and Spain. It even crops up in ancient Trojan and Mesopotamian dig sites now and again. It is universally used in Japan to mark places of religious or spiritual importance. You see it on temples, maps and shrines all over Japan, particularly the Buddhist ones. The swastika is a religious symbol used frequently in Hinduism and Buddhism and is also found in indigenous North American symbology. In Indonesia it is the symbol for 'all power', taken from animist beliefs of a single non-corporeal creator. It is actually a traditional symbol in a lot of Asian nations, China and Korea being chief among them. Just because it was used by one regieme as their national symbol for 12 years, doesn't mean that we should recoil in horror every time we see it. To millions upon millions of people it has nothing to do with war, nazism or racism, and is actually a symbol of peace or religious devotion.

12-11-2005, 06:43 AM	#9
cheddar cheese Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: WSM, England Posts: 20,387	Same with the Fiat G.50 (Sorry, had to get that in )

12-11-2005, 08:07 AM	#10
P38 Pilot Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Auburn,Alabama; USA Posts: 1,822	What does an Italian Plane have to do with a Finnish plane? And im still confused about the Russo-Finnish War. I thought Finland declared an alliance with Germany but when they were conqured by Russia, they were out of the war. They still kept fighting? __________________ Its better to have an Army of deer being led by a lion, rather an Army of Lions being led by a deer...

12-11-2005, 08:57 AM	#11
Nonskimmer Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia Posts: 8,871	Finland negotiated a separate peace with the Soviets and effectively dropped out of the war. They were never conquered by the Soviets. If I'm not mistaken, the Latvian air force used the symbol of a red swastika for a time too, before they were annexed by the Soviet Union. Again, as was the case with Finland, it had nothing whatsoever to do with Nazism.

12-11-2005, 09:46 AM	#12
KraziKanuK Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 795	swastika history http://history1900s.about.com/cs/swa...ikahistory.htm http://www.ainurin.net/history/finnish_swastika.htm One can find the swastika on WW1 a/c. Even the zionists have their own swastika Notice the orientation of the German swastika compare to the Finnish one some trivia: - Coca Cola in 1925 as a lucky watch fob promotion http://www.dpjs.co.uk/files/swasticross_coke.gif - 1916 logo for an Edmonton girls' hockey team - American pilots used it on their planes when they fought for the French in World War One. - it was the symbol for the Ladies Home Journal sponsored Girls' Club and the Boy Scouts. - A town in Ontario was named Swastika in 1911 because of a lucky gold strike. - During World War I, the swastika could even be found on the shoulder patches of the American 45th Division. A link with various ethnic swastikas, http://www.bmezine.com/news/people/A10101/manwoman/

12-11-2005, 10:02 AM	#13
Nonskimmer Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia Posts: 8,871	I'd never come across that Coca-Cola medallion before. Interesting.

12-11-2005, 02:18 PM	#15
Aggie08 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 1,013	It does look odd, not only because it's an allied plane with a swastika but because of the color scheme with the baby blue on white... __________________ "I had ten rockets on board, and as I wasn't particularly fond of head-on attacks, I salvoed the whole lot at him. The rockets didn't hit him but but they must have scared the bejesus out of him, for he did a steep turn to starboard... I let him have the full blast, all eight fifty-calibers. I had never seen an aircraft completely disintegrate in the air the way this Me-110 did..." Bill Dunn, 406th Fighter Group Matt

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