The sound barrier

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by Soren

I still say the Me-262 came the closest, although there is a possibility the Me-163 could go faster and infact went supersonic. But structurally the Me-262 is the soundest of any of the a/c who came close, the problem is the pitching down above Mach 0.86 and the possible stall of the engines.

While I don't disagree any point, what makes you say the 262 is structurally 'sounder' than say the 163?

The shorter wingspan and deeper chord of the 163 certainly gave it a possibility of a much stronger wing, and the lack of horizontal stabililzer removes loads from the tail.

Getting rid of landing gear and associated cut outs of skin and structure adds even more probability of being stiffer and stonger.

Lack of sustained input at high frequency from a jet engine takes out every harmonic input except flutter and I don't recall that was a problem..

So why would the 262 be deemed 'sounder structurally'??

[kool kitty89]

Well, the Me 163's wing is made of wood, but this alone is difficult to speculate with.

[Soren]

Originally Posted by drgondog

While I don't disagree any point, what makes you say the 262 is structurally 'sounder' than say the 163?

The shorter wingspan and deeper chord of the 163 certainly gave it a possibility of a much stronger wing, and the lack of horizontal stabililzer removes loads from the tail.

Getting rid of landing gear and associated cut outs of skin and structure adds even more probability of being stiffer and stonger.

Lack of sustained input at high frequency from a jet engine takes out every harmonic input except flutter and I don't recall that was a problem..

So why would the 262 be deemed 'sounder structurally'??

All valid points Bill and I agree, the only reason for my comment is the knowledge that the Me-163 was constructed partly of wood and that the Me-262 was all metal and features one of the strongest wing structures of all a/c of WW2. The Me-262's wings were purposely built extremely strong because of the fact that they needed to support the engines and the fact that the a/c was going to be flying much faster than any previous a/c, so the G-loads in maneuvers were logically going to be much higher. So although thin the Me-262's wings were among the strongest put on any a/c during the war.

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by Soren

All valid points Bill and I agree, the only reason for my comment is the knowledge that the Me-163 was constructed partly of wood and that the Me-262 was all metal and features one of the strongest wing structures of all a/c of WW2. The Me-262's wings were purposely built extremely strong because of the fact that they needed to support the engines and the fact that the a/c was going to be flying much faster than any previous a/c, so the G-loads in maneuvers were logically going to be much higher. So although thin the Me-262's wings were among the strongest put on any a/c during the war.

Good reasons to speculate - both ships designed for very high 'q' so hard to say one way or the other.

[Waynos]

Is there any meat to the rumours of the Lippisch P.13B being tested supersonically? I have seen this a couple of times but have to say I'm very sceptical.

[delcyros]

Well, the Lippisch P 13b was extensively tested subsonically as well as in supersonic condition in the Darmstadt supersconic wind tunnel. As a model, of course...

[johnbr]

Dr Lippisch said that the P.13 was destroyed in a air raid before it was finished.

[Soren]

The Allies captured one intact so I doubt that.

[kool kitty89]

Soren, it was the DM-1 glider that the US captured (and resulted in Convair's delta projects starting with the XP-92). This glider was very similar to the P.13a design.

The P.13b was a different aircraft. Lippisch Li P.13b Luft '46 entry

Further adding to confusion, the Lippisch P.13 was a completely unrelated project of a push-pull high speed piston engined bomber. (2x DB 605's)

[Soren]

You're right, it was a glider version they captured, I was actually thinking of the P.13a. But Delcyros's statement still stands, as like he said it was small scale windtunnel models which were extensievly tested at sub & supersonic speeds.