Spiteful

[Hot Space]

Fancy a Spitfire in WWII with 2 Cannons & 2 MG's doing that though.

WOW

Originally Posted by R988

I guess Rover was crap even back then.

what was the Spider-Crab? A nickname of the Vampire or a different aircraft?

Yep, that was the original name for the Vampire.

[Gimmeacannon!]

The fastest of the 70-odd Spiefuls built were two F16's (only two were built) with the Griffon 89 rated at 2,450 h.p and a top speed of 494 mph, these were actual service aircraft flown by the RAF as against special one-off aircraft in developement.
I have a photo of a Spit (griffon) that hit over 600 mph in a dive and the prop speed was so great the reduction gearbox exploded and he had to glide back to the field and land the thing.

[Civettone]

I thought 16 or 17 were built out of an original order of 70 (which was already reduced from a greater number)/



Kris

[Jank]

Twitch said, "Proves even a brick with enough horsepower wil fly!!"

That was proven much earlier with the P-47.

[bigZ]

Talking of spit development. Wasn't their an atempt to significantly improve the the Spits range for bomber secort which ended in failure?

I would appreciate it if any one can shed some light and post a pic if possible?

[Civettone]

You're talking about the Spiteful?

The data I have suggest that it didn't have a long-range capability. To me, it's simply the successor of the Spitfire. Development started rather early but was always put on low priority. The British - more than others - upgraded existing designs rather than start with a new one. Worked well in WW2...

Kris

[Morai_Milo]

Spitful could carry both 90gal and 170 gal drop tanks.

[bigZ]

Originally Posted by Civettone

You're talking about the Spiteful?

The data I have suggest that it didn't have a long-range capability. To me, it's simply the successor of the Spitfire. Development started rather early but was always put on low priority. The British - more than others - upgraded existing designs rather than start with a new one. Worked well in WW2...

Kris

Sorry went a bit of topic. No I did mean the Spitfire. Apparently the prototype was an utter failure and quietly shelved. My information is second hand and was hoping for confirmation.

[davparlr]

There are a lot of reports of very fast aircraft in the latter days of WWII. However, the planes of that era typically had airspeed indicators that only provided indicated airspeed (IAS). Some may have been corrected for installation errors (calibrated airspeed-CAS). Probably none had been corrected for compression (equivalent airspeed-EAS). And probably none had outside air temperature which is necessary to calculate true airspeed (TAS). As a result of all of these errors, the indicators of these aircraft were woefully inadequate to generate an accurate TAS and pilot reports other than "that was fast" should be suspect. Unless, of course, the plane was tested in a controlled enviornment with proper instrumentation.

The world's fasted piston engined aircraft over 3 km is an F8F with a non-standard R3350 engine that generated 3800 hp with a speed of 850 km/hr (528 mph). Over a longer course, a P-51D holds the record with a non-standard Merlin that generated 3000 hp with a speed of 832 km/hr (516 mph). You can pretty well predict that these aircraft were stripped of every non-essential pound and every crack was sealed and every bump was removed, and with very small aerodynamic canopys. Also, they probably only had enough fuel to fly the course and land.

With the above information, I believe that, for a piston powered warbird to approach 500 mph in level flight, it would have to be very clean, no racks, and have about 3000 hp. The following planes would probably be capable of reaching close to 500 mph, although I have not seen any test results that would indicate that. With a normal load of fuel and with the warfighting weight, even these would struggle to get close to 500 mph.

XP-72 with 3450 hp
Do-335 with 3600 hp

With 2400 hp, the Spiteful probably would not approach 500 mph.
Two engine aircraft would have to carry a significant more hp due to increased drag. Except, of course, the Do-335 which had tandem engines.

[Jank]

The XP-47J with an R-2800C-57 (2,800hp) hit 507mph in combat trim. The secret - It's combat loaded weight was 2,000lbs less than a P-47D and it had a close fitting cowl that presented a more efficient shape.

[Smokey]

The Heinkel He P 1076 had a theoretical speed of 546 mph and forward swept wongs, so in theory it would have had a relatively small turning circle.



Heinkel He P.1076

[davparlr]

Originally Posted by Jank

The XP-47J with an R-2800C-57 (2,800hp) hit 507mph in combat trim. The secret - It's combat loaded weight was 2,000lbs less than a P-47D and it had a close fitting cowl that presented a more efficient shape.

I've seen that number too, but I don't know if it is flight test or engineering estimates. I have seen similar data on the P-51H showing a top speed of 487 mph, which was an engineering estimate by North American while actual flight test show only about 475 mph. The XP-47J does have the criteria I suggested, however.

[davparlr]

Originally Posted by Smokey

The Heinkel He P 1076 had a theoretical speed of 546 mph and forward swept wongs, so in theory it would have had a relatively small turning circle.



Heinkel He P.1076

A lot of things can be accomplished theoretically. The P 1076 (if it could have been built with those forward swept wings and the engine worked) could probably reach the 500 mph level with its most powerful engine, 2750 hp (it meets my criteria) but I doubt it could go a lot faster. Remember, a P-51D, also an extremely clean aircraft, with a 3000 hp engine was able to make only 516 mph, a record that still stands for the distance.

Also, the fasted propeller driven aircraft in the world was a Russian Tu 114 with speed of 541 mph. This with counter-rotating supersonic props and was jet turbo powered.

[Smokey]

Mark XIV - the type 371 was fitted with a Griffon 69 engine rated at 2,375 hp driving a 5 blade propeller. The top speed was 475 mph. 19 were built. Of these aircraft 1 was converted to a Mark XV and 2 were converted to Mark XVI.
Mark XV - Fitted with a Griffon 89 or 90 engine rated at 2,350 hp and driving two contra rotating three blade propellers. The one converted aircraft, RB520, was subsequently used in the development of the Seafang. Top speed was 483 mph.
Mark XVI - The two conversions from the Mark XIV, RB516 and RB518 were fitted with the Griffon 101 engine producing 2,420 hp and a top speed of 494 mph.

http://www.supermarine-spitfire.co.uk/the_spiteful.htm

[Civettone]

Davparl, wouldn't you consider the Spiteful aerodynamically more refined and lighter in weight than the P-51D?


And the tandem engine configuration of the Do 335 was aerodynamically inefficient, as acknowledged by the Dornier guys themselves.

Kris