Is Spitfire really the BEST British fighter??? - Page 6 - Aircraft of World War II

Andrew · 03-03-2005, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the lancaster kicks ass

you can get stuff like that from your local library??

The Library in Slough has quite a good collection of books on Warfare.

Hot Space · 03-03-2005, 10:24 AM

Any Noddy

Hot Space

cheddar cheese · 03-03-2005, 12:07 PM

Damn im convinced!

Medvedya · 03-03-2005, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

Quote:

Originally Posted by the lancaster kicks ass

you can get stuff like that from your local library??

The Library in Slough has quite a good collection of books on Warfare.

As well as poems by John Betjemen and the scripts for 'The Office'

Schöpfel · 03-09-2005, 08:10 PM

Hello:

In my opinion the Spitfire was obviously the best British figher - up to 1944. First half of 1944 its either Spit XIV or Tempest V, the choice is a matter of taste. Beginning June 1944 I'd have to go with the Mustang III with +25 boost; it had the best all around performance. I can't think of another period of time where the RAF had an aircraft with such an enormous quality advantage over the Lufwaffe as the highly boosted Mustang IIIs had during the summer of 1944.

p.s. nice site RG_Lunatic

Maestro · 03-10-2005, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schöpfel

Hello:

In my opinion the Spitfire was obviously the best British figher - up to 1944. First half of 1944 its either Spit XIV or Tempest V, the choice is a matter of taste. Beginning June 1944 I'd have to go with the Mustang III with +25 boost; it had the best all around performance. I can't think of another period of time where the RAF had an aircraft with such an enormous quality advantage over the Lufwaffe as the highly boosted Mustang IIIs had during the summer of 1944.

p.s. nice site RG_Lunatic

According to a book I have here (comparing the Spitfire Mk. IX to the Mustang III), prefering one to an other was only a question of personnal taste. Those aircraft had approximately the same performances.

- The Mustang III had a greater range
- The Mustang III was faster of +/- 32 km/h
- Their speed was equivalent between 10 and 15,000 feet and between 25,000 and 32,000 feet
- The Spitfire Mk. IX had a better climb
- In a dive, the Mustang III could desengage quickly
- The Spitfire Mk. IX could out turn the Mustang III, even with the flaps down
- The Spitfire Mk. IX had a better rool rate at normal speed, but were the same at 350 km/h
- The Spitfire Mk. IX had a greater punch (2 x 20mm + 4 .303 compared to 4 x Browning machine guns for the Mustang III)

DJ_Dalton · 03-10-2005, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheddar cheese

The Spit could easily deal with the Fw-190 by about the Mk.VIII. It is also widely recognised that the Mk.XIV was the best dogfighter of the war...I havent heard of any combat reports with the 262's but if the P-47 could manage them im sure the Spitfire could. I would say it was easily Britains best fighter.

Egads

First off, the Spitfire was never a match for the Focke Wulf. Certainly not the VIII. And it never "Easily" dealt with anything the Luftwaffe had in the air. It was slower or same speeded for much of its incarnation and only reached the ability to climb out of trouble (against the Focke Wulf ) with the IXc and even then it wasn't faster and always had an anemic roll rate unless compared to the underwing Gondola 109G-6...lol. The IXc was however the first Spitfire to reach a form of parity with the Focke Wulf. Though, both it and its successor paid dearly in maneuverability and responsiveness for the speed to even the energy equation somewhat.

The Spitfire is undoubtely the most overrated plane of that front. If it was up to the Spitifires to win the war by guarding the daylight bombers. The war would in all likelihood still be waging. The P-47 and P-51 won the air war over Europe. The Spitfire looked good on the bench. It was safer there.

The leading British ace of the war was Jim Johnson. He had 38 confirmed kills. Kinda puts things in perspective doesnt it?

Maestro · 03-10-2005, 03:12 PM

Dalton, you are wrong. Or, as we say in French : "You're out of the track".

In the same book than the Mustang VS Spitfire comparison, I got an other chapiter about the Spitfire Mk. IX VS the Focke-Wulf FW 190A.

Here it goes :

- The Spitfire was faster at medium and high altitude (5 to 10 km/h)
- The FW-190 was faster at low altitude (5 to 10 km/h)
- The Spitfire had a better climb, it was even more noticable over 22,000 feet
- The FW-190 was faster and more manoeuvrable in dive
- The Spitfire was better in sharp turns

And concerning the British Aces, keep a thing in mind : most of Allied Aces (excluding USA) flew Spitfires. (James Edgar Johnson, Pierre H. Clostermann...)

Moreover, the US Navy bought Spitfires for use on carriers because they couldn't successfully land a P-51 on them.

Don't piss on the Spitfire, it was a better plane than you could imagine.

KraziKanuK · 03-10-2005, 03:48 PM

Maestro,

The P-51D was carrier qualified. This was done in the fall of 1944 using the Shangri-la.

DJ_Dalton,

if you are going to name aces, please get the name correct.

Johnson's name was James E. "Johnny" not Jim. The top RAF ace was Marmaduke T.St. J. Pattle.

I would not put to much stock in what Deighton has to say.

the lancaster kicks ass · 03-10-2005, 05:04 PM

Johnson was the RAF's top scoring Ace with 38 kills, all from a spit, all were signle engined planes, only holed once..........

Maestro · 03-10-2005, 05:14 PM

I agree with Lanc, I always heard of J. E. Johnson as the top RAF ace with 38 victories.

cheddar cheese · 03-10-2005, 05:20 PM

I thought Pattle was the RAF's second leading ace...

wmaxt · 03-10-2005, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maestro

Dalton, you are wrong. Or, as we say in French : "You're out of the track".

In the same book than the Mustang VS Spitfire comparison, I got an other chapiter about the Spitfire Mk. IX VS the Focke-Wulf FW 190A.

Here it goes :

- The Spitfire was faster at medium and high altitude (5 to 10 km/h)
- The FW-190 was faster at low altitude (5 to 10 km/h)
- The Spitfire had a better climb, it was even more noticable over 22,000 feet
- The FW-190 was faster and more manoeuvrable in dive
- The Spitfire was better in sharp turns

And concerning the British Aces, keep a thing in mind : most of Allied Aces (excluding USA) flew Spitfires. (James Edgar Johnson, Pierre H. Clostermann...)

Moreover, the US Navy bought Spitfires for use on carriers because they couldn't successfully land a P-51 on them.

Don't piss on the Spitfire, it was a better plane than you could imagine.

R. Lenard posted shots of P-51s on carriers B-25s too.

The P-51 and the Spits never operated operationaly from carriers simply because 1) The Navy used only AIR cooled engines and 2) in the Hellcat/Corsair they had perfectly capable aircraft with better range and capacity for ordanance.

DJ_Dalton · 03-10-2005, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KraziKanuK

Maestro,

DJ_Dalton,

if you are going to name aces, please get the name correct.

Johnson's name was James E. "Johnny" not Jim. The top RAF ace was Marmaduke T.St. J. Pattle.

I would not put to much stock in what Deighton has to say.

Well, forgive me on the precise spelling of the first name., though I think I identified the number of "confirmed" victories properly. (3

. If he had scored say 125 victories I might remember with detail the spelling of a name, but when a guy claims 38, James, Jim, Johnny, Jennifer...it really doesnt matter. I don't mispell Erich Hartmann, Gunther Rall or Hiroyoshi Nishizawa.

Pat Pattle, (A South African) is credited with 41 victories. Mostly Fiats and Italian bomberst. He is said to have downed a couple 109's. E versions, but he ws dead by 1941 and never flew a Spitfire. Probably would have eschewed it.

The most overrated plane of the Western Front is the Spitfire. Of the Eastern Front the Yak-9 in all its variants.

Between the two its close. They would have been a good matchup.

Maestro · 03-10-2005, 06:55 PM

Overrated ? Damn, Dalton ! You can't read ? I shown you evidence that it was NOT.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maestro

Dalton, you are wrong. Or, as we say in French : "You're out of the track".

In the same book than the Mustang VS Spitfire comparison, I got an other chapiter about the Spitfire Mk. IX VS the Focke-Wulf FW 190A.

Here it goes :

- The Spitfire was faster at medium and high altitude (5 to 10 km/h)
- The FW-190 was faster at low altitude (5 to 10 km/h)
- The Spitfire had a better climb, it was even more noticable over 22,000 feet
- The FW-190 was faster and more manoeuvrable in dive
- The Spitfire was better in sharp turns

Don't piss on the Spitfire, it was a better plane than you could imagine.

If you still think that the Spitfire was a piece of sh*t after seeing that, either you're frigging blind or you're stupid.

03-10-2005, 03:12 PM	#83
Maestro Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Beaupré, Province of Québec, Canada Posts: 2,381	Dalton, you are wrong. Or, as we say in French : "You're out of the track". In the same book than the Mustang VS Spitfire comparison, I got an other chapiter about the Spitfire Mk. IX VS the Focke-Wulf FW 190A. Here it goes : - The Spitfire was faster at medium and high altitude (5 to 10 km/h) - The FW-190 was faster at low altitude (5 to 10 km/h) - The Spitfire had a better climb, it was even more noticable over 22,000 feet - The FW-190 was faster and more manoeuvrable in dive - The Spitfire was better in sharp turns And concerning the British Aces, keep a thing in mind : most of Allied Aces (excluding USA) flew Spitfires. (James Edgar Johnson, Pierre H. Clostermann...) Moreover, the US Navy bought Spitfires for use on carriers because they couldn't successfully land a P-51 on them. Don't piss on the Spitfire, it was a better plane than you could imagine. __________________ Maestro http://www.yantremblay.com/

03-10-2005, 05:04 PM	#85
the lancaster kicks ass Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 19,945	Johnson was the RAF's top scoring Ace with 38 kills, all from a spit, all were signle engined planes, only holed once.......... __________________ "Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy."

03-10-2005, 05:14 PM	#86
Maestro Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Beaupré, Province of Québec, Canada Posts: 2,381	I agree with Lanc, I always heard of J. E. Johnson as the top RAF ace with 38 victories. __________________ Maestro http://www.yantremblay.com/

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03-03-2005, 10:24 AM	#77
Hot Space Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 2,172	Any Noddy Hot Space

03-03-2005, 12:07 PM	#78
cheddar cheese Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: WSM, England Posts: 20,387	Damn im convinced!

03-09-2005, 08:10 PM	#80
Schöpfel Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 20	Hello: In my opinion the Spitfire was obviously the best British figher - up to 1944. First half of 1944 its either Spit XIV or Tempest V, the choice is a matter of taste. Beginning June 1944 I'd have to go with the Mustang III with +25 boost; it had the best all around performance. I can't think of another period of time where the RAF had an aircraft with such an enormous quality advantage over the Lufwaffe as the highly boosted Mustang IIIs had during the summer of 1944. p.s. nice site RG_Lunatic

03-10-2005, 03:48 PM	#84
KraziKanuK Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 795	Maestro, The P-51D was carrier qualified. This was done in the fall of 1944 using the Shangri-la. DJ_Dalton, if you are going to name aces, please get the name correct. Johnson's name was James E. "Johnny" not Jim. The top RAF ace was Marmaduke T.St. J. Pattle. I would not put to much stock in what Deighton has to say.

03-10-2005, 05:20 PM	#87
cheddar cheese Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: WSM, England Posts: 20,387	I thought Pattle was the RAF's second leading ace...