 | Sturmböcke in the East| Aviation Discuss Sturmböcke in the East in the World War II - Aviation forums; Correct me if necessary (please):
If I recall correctly the three (or perhaps some of the three) Sturmböck gruppen (... |
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12-30-2004, 01:27 PM
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#1 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Rising Above
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Country:  | Sturmböcke in the East
Correct me if necessary (please):
If I recall correctly the three (or perhaps some of the three) Sturmböck gruppen (of JG3, JG4 and JG300, after Sturmstaffel 1), were moved east in 1945, right after having had some striking succeses in 1944 against the formations of B-17s and B-24s.
Furthermore, if I recall correctly it was still in early 1945 (January?) that the Sturmböcke still had some striking victories against the USAAF´s heavy bombers.
Does anyone happen to know when were the Sturm units moved east and which units did the change comprise?
Did the Sturm fighters were use as ordinary fighters against the VVS?
Any further input will be very greatly appreciated.
Cheers!
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12-30-2004, 01:33 PM
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#2 | | Member
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Did the Sturm fighters were use as ordinary fighters against the VVS?
| Dispite my Oxford education and cultured breeding, can some tell me what VVS means ? | |
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12-30-2004, 01:46 PM
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#3 | | the old Sage
Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere
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Country: | Udet you are correct !
All of JG 3 and JG 4 were moved by 15th of January to the Ost Front. Some SturmFw's remained in both these units and there was an influence of regular A-9's equipped with 4 2cm weapons as well as being unarmored. JG 300 and JG 301 stayed behind in the west and yes JG 300 scored some notable victories agasint US bomber formations, notably 14 of January 45, but in turn were really hit hard....
E ~
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12-30-2004, 01:50 PM
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#4 | | He who does not skim
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Originally Posted by (G/C) Lionel Mandrake Dispite my Oxford education and cultured breeding, can some tell me what VVS means ? | It refers to the Soviet Red Air Force. I've no idea what "VVS" actually stands for. | |
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12-30-2004, 01:55 PM
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#5 | | Master of Ewes
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Country:  | well they're obviously russian initials....................
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12-30-2004, 01:56 PM
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#6 | | Member
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| Thanks chum  Erich, no chance you sending me a free signed copy of your next book?  | |
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12-30-2004, 01:57 PM
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#7 | | He who does not skim
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
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Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by the lancaster kicks ass well they're obviously russian initials.................... | Care to translate? | |
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12-30-2004, 01:59 PM
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#8 | | Master of Ewes
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Country: | how dare you ask a young man a question like that, there's laws against stuff like that you know..................
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"Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy." | |
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12-30-2004, 02:30 PM
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#9 | | He who does not skim
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12-30-2004, 03:14 PM
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#10 | | Senior Member
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Country: | hi
Lionel Mandrake:
I will be glad to increase your already vast culture:
VV-S stands for: Voenno-Vozdushniye Sily.
Being a Russian (50%  ) perhaps made me just type VVS rather than explaining a bit more on the meaning.
Erich:
For one moment I had forgotten you were a member of the forum.
Thanks a lot for the input!
So there were some Fw190´s non fitted with the extra-armor? Well, can that perhaps lead to think they were not Sturmböcke as they had been deployed in the west against the USAAF heavies?
Another question raises, are there any records on the performance of the Sturm units in the eastern front?
Since the soviet air force did never produce any heavy bombers, the Sturm tactis weren´t necessary in the east?
Still I can imagine a formation of Sturmböcke intercepting a large formation of IL-2M´s. If the heavy bombers were to some extent "easy" victims (much larger and heavily defended targets) the Shturmoviks surely made even easier preys.
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12-30-2004, 03:31 PM
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#11 | | the old Sage
Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere
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Country: | hello again friend
yes the sturm wedge tactics were withdrawn and no longer used but with so much experience in clsoe-in fighting the German crews flew very close and blew away the opposition. Over all the sturm pilots in JG 3 were lost to Soviet Flak. My friend Oskar Bosch still flew his black 14 and then later black 13 on the Ost front. Both a/c were the heavy A-8/R8's SturmFw. He scored the last victory of the gruppe by playing the roulette game with a Yak pilot and they both rammed each other, the Soviet pilots a/c nearly vaporized upon the collision. Oskar bailed out almost right next to one of his undercarriage arms/wheel stuck two feet in the ground. He was to be almost immediately captured By the Soviets and held in captivity for several days till he escaped and was taken by friendly W-SS truppen. Sent to the back Oskar made his way on foot back to his home in Austria.
E ~
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12-30-2004, 03:35 PM
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#12 | | Senior Member
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Country: | Erich:
Thank you very much for both the info and your friend´s story!
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12-30-2004, 06:25 PM
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#13 | | Senior Member
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| Hmm, never heard of a Russian in Mexico...
Anyway...
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12-30-2004, 06:43 PM
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#14 | | Forum Politruk
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Country:  | I have - a bloke called Trotsky - had a disagreement with an ice-pick whilst he was south of the border...... | |
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12-31-2004, 06:20 AM
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#15 | | Senior Member
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Country: | Yes, that must have stung a bit.
__________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004  To those in that club. | |
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