SturmFw's

[Erich]

German losses were due to Luftkampf (fighter combat).

Weird but even the 4 engine heavies crews though the Minengeschoss rounds of 2cm and 3cm felt like Flak; no doubt the B-26 crewmen thought the same thing.

December 24, 1944 is another tradgedy which I covered who knows when. this is the operation that was led by ............anyway some of this coverage was to be present on our sturm website some years ago but has not materialized yeet as the association contact failed to write me back/487th US bg.

For once the Luftwaffe managed to get the drop on the Americans. German SturmFw's suddenly pounced on the unprotected box of Heavy bombers as they crossed the Meuse River. Lt. General Castle was in one of the 487th bg B-17's which had an engine malfunction and had fallen out and slightly back of formation, when a gaggle of Fw's suddenly appeared. IV.Sturm/JG 3 spotted the bombers while they were passing Liege Belgiium. The US fighters were not in position (a rarity) to help, so a rear attack developed.
Immediately 7 B-17's burst into flame and 2 others so badly damaged they struggled to keep formation and a forced landings to destruction.

30 SturmFw's were in the attack and a small group of Sturms broke away in front which did the overall damage. 3 boxes were attacked in the 487th at 22,000 feet via Y-control.
Fw. Wilhelm Hofensitz picked out the outer B-17 on the starboard side of the middle box. Attacking from above with his four cannon, the B-17 went spiraling out of control. On a seceond attack Wihelm's machine was hit by a B-17 70 feet below him, hitting his engine and causing a fire whcih then he bailed out. His wingman Obergefreiter Hubert Hirschfelder was shot down by the tail gunner of the B-17 he was attacking, Hubert also bailing out but the B-17 also going down to the severe heavy Minen rounds.

General Castle's Treble Four was hit broadside as Castle struggled to get back to the rear of a protective box of bombers. he would not jettison the B-17 bomb load, fearing he would kill civilians and or Allied troops. As the B-17 crew parachuted, a SturmFw came in with it's cannon firing, and severed one of the wings at the root, the B-17 went into a high speed spin smashing into the ground at Rotheux Rimieres, Belgiium.

8 SturmFw pilots calimed victories and 2 other B-17's HSS/ shot out of formation. SturmFw losses amounted to 6 with 5 pilots bailing out POW and 1 KIA. Ace Wolfgang Kosse flying an Fw 190A-9 was shot down in combat with a group of Typhoons in the area of Lüttich as well as two other Fw pilots, names unknown.

A German pilots account who shot down two of the B-17's, Karl Kapteina.

Cockpit readiness was ordered at 11.15. The order to scramble came through 15 minutes later. Around thirty of the Gruppes fighters got airborne and climbed away behind the machine of Hptm Weydenhammer, assembling over the field before climbing to an altitude of 7,000 metres. guided by the Y-Führung, we were vectored to meet the incoming 3BD Boeings over the Lüttich sector. No escorting fighters accompanied the Sturmgruppe and there was no forming up into a battle formation. the Gruppe had been up for well over an hour and over Belgiium and thus Allied held territory, when three large boxes of B-17's were sighted. the bombers were themselves still climbing for altitude and were thus not covered by fighters at that time.

I detected a perceptible sense of unease in the formation. My comrades tightened up closer and Hptm Weydenhammer led us in a wide sweep to port, gaining some 300m altitude, bringing the formation around into the attacking position behind the bombers (487th bg survivors say the Sturms attacked from the front, which was not true). We were now some 200m higer and trailing some 800m behind the enemy bomber formation. Our Kommandeur radioed back our ground control....We are attacking now! Throttles wide open, our ships accelerated to draw rapidly within firing range. We had selected the bomber formation flying furthest out wide to the left as our targer. Ott, who was flying the machine nearest to me on my right hand side, was all over the place and, fearful of a collision, I had to keep a very close eye on his manuevers. then I had to draw a bead, in other words, select a targer in the reflecting sight. with my initial salvos i raked the tail-gunners compartment leaving it riddled (more like blown off). Easing my aim onto the wings I hammered away with everything I'd got. In the meantime I'd drawn in so close that debris from the bomber's fin and rudder was flying around my ears. by now flames had erupted from many points on the bomber's upper surfaces'; as it's undercarriage dropped down, the machine tipped over on it's port wing and went down. I didn't have time to see if any of the crew were able to bail out. As the bomber plunged earthwards I saw my comrade Hopfensitz going down, trailing a banner of white smoke.......
After diving 500 metres down under the bombers I shot a glance back up at the formation (pulk) under attack. It now comprised just a confused mass of burning aircraft in their death throes. two or three untouched bombers were attempting to fly evasive manuevers. they also had to be brought down ! with my spirits high, I pulled up the nose of my fighter and with my momentum climbed quickly back to their altitude. I noticed that a 16th staffel machine had also climbed back up and was now closing on one of the bomber's tails. Seeing this, three bomber crew threw themselves clear before the Fw even fired a shot. the entire B-17 soon followed them down as the Fw raked it with fire. I had meanwhile close to within 500m of a new target. three shapes jumped clear. by now the bomber was flying evasive maneuvers and at a range of 200m I pressed the firing button for the 2cm cannon, lossing off short bursts; once I could see hits I opened up with the 3cm cannons, spraying the bombers wings. My fire was frighteningly effective. the netire machine had erupted in flames and seconds later the wing peeled back off at the port outer engine ............

the 487th was heading for Germany when attacked. thanks to friend Neil Page for translating Karl's acct. one day we will get this re-written and placed on the site

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Wow great info Erich.

Udet I think the reason people jump on you and the problem is because of they way you come across.

[lesofprimus]

Erich, thanks for a great read... We here appreciate u posting up such indepth information... Crews jumping outta aircraft before the Sturm even starts firing... U wanna talk about fear...

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I agree Les.

[syscom3]

If theres a "blank" spot in what I (and probably others) have is the history of the Luftwaffe against the 9th AF.

As Erich has shown, there were some intense air battles that have not seen much publicity.

No doubt other encounters (although probably not on a scale like Dec 23rd) occured. And this is also probably true for the Brits and their tactical AF.

[Erich]

this is for Les or anyone that is antcipating a purchase of the new Sturmgruppen in the elite units # 20 series.

my comments start with the profiles section and then into some of the captioned photos and please excuse the randomenss of some of the sentancing......

Right now I can say the profiles are just plain terrible. Numerals on all the aircraft of the wrong size.. Spiralschnuazes are wrong. Maxis schwarze 8 does not have a red/yellow spinner it is black/yellow. Blue 13 does not have the white rumpfband with black welle.
yellow 17 was not W. Ungers mount
Wappenshields on JG 4 Sturms are incorrect.
Gefreiter Wagners Weiße 11 did not have outboard Mk 108's they were 2cm weapons, the white 11 is incorrect.
Salffners white 6 is incorrect and the machine did not have outboard Nk 108's either but 2cm weapons.

guess I should stop here but looking at the photo clarity it is not overly good, every photo I have seen in other books and I have the cine films that the still are taken of. Real quick Walter Loos did not serve in IV.Sturm/JG 3 Sturm Fw unit, he did fly Bf 109G-6 with the Br 21cm rocket launchers in the old IV./JG 3.............phot caption on pg 37. Back a couple of pages for Oskar Bösch, pg. 34 lower left pic of his A-6. Two mechnaics not Oskar are in the pic.
Bottom of page 36 is Moritz, Haase and the SturmFw JG 3 adjutant to Moritz, taken during the summer of 44.
last comment for now, page 49 lower pic is the same as the following page black 8. Weal must have had too much coffee or something as the "blinkers" he calls them are not present on the a/c in either pic. the pics are of the same a/c, he is incorrect.

pg 52 and 53 Maxi's kill, I have the cine film the B-17 is totally wasted from the left side which the pics do not show, 2cm and 3cm fire cause internal explosions with much debris blowing out the left side of the a/c.
page 54 is from 27 September 1944 showing a 445th bg B-24 getting pounded from 2cm and 3cm fire; I have the cine film.

pg 59, Weal does not seem to know which is Dahls a/c. He says black 13 is E.Tichy's and then says it is Dahls blue 13. does not seem familiar with blue 13 in several variations flown by Dahl in Stab./JG 300.
Second pic on that page is black 13 of 11.Sturm/JG 3 and what Weal did not investigate was white 13 sitting right next to black 13 on the left of it. White 13 of course was in 10.Sturm/JG 3 ..............ok enough picking the book apart for tonight, more later ......

E

[lesofprimus]

Excellent refrencing erich... Please keep on when ur hands can continue...

[Erich]

more ...........

The Oschersleben sequence is off the cine films which I own and are actually running about 5 minutes or more in length. The Staffeln birds have an array of arms, some mg cowling mounts, some outboard Mk 108's and some with outboard 2cm weapons. Even the markings are not quite consistent yet but would be very soon with 10th and 11th staffel spirals being white, 12th staffel being yellow and 2./JG 51's red, and then all 4 staffeln the standard white. Weal in the profiles makes JG 3 Sturms cowling solid black but indeed there is a hint of blue in the black.
Back to the cine film of the Sturms flying over parked a/c, yes nearly everyone of the Fw's have Scheuklappen installed. Weal makes an impression about one Sturm a/c in particular that has the mg cowling lifted and with no mg 131's. Interesting that this 1 a/c seems to have a white rudder fitted, I cannot see the numeral on the fuselage.

Back to the profile just briefly, yellow 12 Paul Lixfeldts machine the profile is incorrect as the nose ring is not the right colour nor the spinner details, I would rather not make too much comment on JG 300 machines as they will be covered in the Frenchmans second volume unit history.

page 81 upper right corner photo is Black 1 A-7/MK in spring of 1944, fitted with Mk 108 outboard no heavy armor inclusion. The a/c was flown by a Staffelkapitän Fritz Engau within I. gruppe/JG 11.

page 87 photo of Klaus Richter supposedly of 5th staffel JG 300. Weal says this is red 4. this is the first JG 300 unit with Scheuklappen fitted that I have seen though have seen the photo elsewhere. My conclusion of seeing this offizier in another pic with the tail of this SturmFw and another in the background with those "blinkers" fitteed is that this is not Klaus but a II/JG 4 pilot as the rumpfband in the background photo of the one I mentioned appears to be black white black and not the blue-white-blue and besisdes why would a JG 300 December 44 till wars end be fitted with the canopy armor when JG 300 resisted the installment due to icing problems ? ......... my take on it anyway.

pages 104/105, friend Oskar Bösch on his A-8/R2 in August 44, Weal then says on page 105 this is the same black 14 with 14th staffel kameraden, it is not. December 44 Black 14 a different SturmFw of his. A line up photo that is owned as original from Barry Smith, I have a copy and Neil used this as his wonderful header in the SAM SturmFw article he wrote several years back.

so at this point looking through the photo selection, yes Prien was used, Mombeeks was used Price was used, and the JG 300 materials from German author Bernd Barbas in his old Luftwaffe Aces tomes. Much of the JG 300 items shown on B.O.'s JG 300 web-site and am sure all will be in the second volume of JG 300 produced soon, several already are in the first volume. Also of note is the useage of Bethkes JG 300 work, so this maybe the base of the JG 300 photos .... ?

more coming....... the comment on the text

[Gnomey]

Nice information Erich. Keep it coming.

[Erich]

guys quickly as my hands are fading real fast, this is the pic that is used in the osprey book on at least two occassions, also used in Neil's fine work:

Scale Aircraft Modelling vol. 23, number 1, March 2001.

pick up a copy and I will add some comments about some of the changes we did....later. I included several photos with one in colour for Neil

[Erich]

well gents I just "blew" through my borrowed copy of Ospreys attempt at the Sturmgruppen. My suggestion is save your monies for one of the more expensive illustrated histories. the only thing worth two cents is the photo content. Not one first person accounts and it is copied from mission reports which are not correct, many times for missions listed all it is is how many a/c and pilots the Sturmgruppen lost and nothing on victories or even the bomb group they came up against, the closing chapter is worthless muck describing pages 118-123 from Sturm to Ramm which is totally not within the scope of a Sturmgruppen work. From a scale of 1-10 I would give this a 2 minus, not to be seen on my bookshelves.

E

[lesofprimus]

Ouch... Not a favorable endorsement then, huh erich???

[evangilder]

Another Osprey book that is good to even out the rocking table.

[Erich]

leave the book on the book racks at the bookstore............

Neil and I discussed bringing back our Sturm materials on the site ASAP and also a rewrite of my review of the Osprey book as well as a model done by a cahp covering blue 13, Walter Dahl

[syscom3]

Erich, you should be writting your own book about the Sturm Groups.

You have a lot of excellent information, and a good grasp on the materials.