The Ta-152.... The Best High Altitude Fighter?????

[bigZ]

I have seen mentioned of serviceablity problems on the 152. I think these mainly arose from the plane being rushed into production before all the bugs where sorted. Another major factor(and this effects all german WWII planes) is Goring insistance on frontline numbers without sufficent spares and the engine manufactures difficulty in meeting demand.

A correction to a post that stated the 152 wing being 'twisted root to tip'. The 152 like the 190 had washout for approx 2/3 of the wing only the last 1/3 had no washout.

Erich I symphase with you on the Mongram book(Paid for mine as soon the offer started in 2005). Can't wait to see more photos on the 152E.

[Erich]

hopeful our wait will not be in vain. I was not impressed with D.H.'s Ta 152 effort through Schiffer, though he tried to cover JG 301 ops I thought it was rather lame.

part of the problem with other JG 301 vets I have had replies from was just the plain chaoticness in spring of 45, everything was left not much taken as the Soviets were rolling up the grass in the Reich too quickly. haphazard fields to fly from and even returning from a mission finding that the men were moving to other fields. no a/c with specific pilots in mind anymore, if it had gas and ran it was going to get flown by anyone. anything in need of repair was left and forgotten.........a real indicator for JG 301 but other JG's and NJG's as well in spring of 45

[bigZ]

Originally Posted by Erich

hopeful our wait will not be in vain. I was not impressed with D.H.'s Ta 152 effort through Schiffer, though he tried to cover JG 301 ops I thought it was rather lame.

part of the problem with other JG 301 vets I have had replies from was just the plain chaoticness in spring of 45, everything was left not much taken as the Soviets were rolling up the grass in the Reich too quickly. haphazard fields to fly from and even returning from a mission finding that the men were moving to other fields. no a/c with specific pilots in mind anymore, if it had gas and ran it was going to get flown by anyone. anything in need of repair was left and forgotten.........a real indicator for JG 301 but other JG's and NJG's as well in spring of 45

Schiffer had also much the same info in their 190D book.

I hear what your saying about the last days. Not forgetting how many groundcrew where sholdering a rifle against the Russians.

Ps. I have an original factory copy of the ta 152 fuse profile dated 1943. If someone would like to compress it, I would be happy for it to go in the tecnical section.

[Erich]

Leutnant Hagedorn (still alive and I have a signed bookplate via Weisenr from him), flew Yellow 2 on 2 February 45 while in III./JG 301 along with pilots Bübi Blum and Hauptman Benno Rühe. Hagedorn says they flew to 43,290 feet and flew at an incredible speed of 508-515 mph. "I'd never had such a fast aircraft under my behind in all my life".

I totally forgot about this little episode

this craft was a hot rod . . . ........

[Udet]

Great piece of information Erich. Thanks!

[lesofprimus]

Nice tidbit Erich...

[davparlr]

Originally Posted by Erich

Leutnant Hagedorn (still alive and I have a signed bookplate via Weisenr from him), flew Yellow 2 on 2 February 45 while in III./JG 301 along with pilots Bübi Blum and Hauptman Benno Rühe. Hagedorn says they flew to 43,290 feet and flew at an incredible speed of 508-515 mph. "I'd never had such a fast aircraft under my behind in all my life".

I totally forgot about this little episode

this craft was a hot rod . . . ........

I am highly doubtful of pilot reports of top speeds in aircraft. Without proper instrumentation like outside air temperature and calibrated air data installations, and elimination of variables such as vertical velocity, level flight TAS calculations are unreliable. The are many are many pilots that reported high airspeed for various aircraft, very few have been accepted by knowledgable sources as accurate, the ones that are are verified by proper test procedures. So, a level flight speed of 508-515 is indeed incredible.

There is no doubt Ta-152H is fast, but the highest speed I have seen in 469 mph, which is very fast and reasonable when compared to other high performance aircraft at the end of the war, P-51H-474 mph, P-47N-468 mph, Fw-190D-12-483 mph. Even the Do 335A-1 with dual inline engines developing 3600 hp was capable of only 474 mph.

But my vote is still that the Ta152H was the best high altitude fighter.

[Erich]

469mph at what altitude ?

my quote is from him confirmed by two other pilots one besides being a Captain. the three were followed by ground control with also confirmation by one of the chief test pilots witnessing the event through ground control procedures which was the rule of thumb at the time for Germany.

Reschke performed several speed mods at 472mph at over 41,000 feet in the Tank

hey what can I say if we are going to take what is evident in todays world compared what was done 59 years ago then they all lied ........... NOT

A 56th fg Jug pilot that flew Loos Green 4 admitted back in the states it was everything that the German techs and pilots claimed

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I will add some questions about Willis 472mph hour flights into the letter that is going out tomorrow.

[Gnomey]

Good stuff Erich, very interesting to read. Adler it should be interesting to see what Willie says on this subject.

[Erich]

side note I am going to write Herr Hagedorn later in the month to get more specific I hope if he responds. The Do 335 was purely experimental who knows how far it would go had it been on ops. Personally it was too fricking big. the P-51H was not in the ETO. The Fw 190D-12 did maybe a couple of missions. the P-47N on the other hand I have no data. The tank flew missions from end of January 45 till wars end against the Soviets, British and the Americans so it does have a track record and remember the rep for JG 301 clearly states that ALL of JG 301 was to have been equipped with the Ta 152H; now that might have been an interesting challenge for 8th AF P-51 D's and K's....

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Erich I will send you a PM in a bit about some stuff.

[Erich]

am sending Willi a note on the whereabouts of L. Bracht and R.M who both flew the Ta in III./JG 301. they maybe off the planet but then maybe not ......

send a pm any time

[davparlr]

Originally Posted by Erich

469mph at what altitude ?

Looks like 9.2 km (30,100 ft)

Interpreted from FW charts provided by Soren and my general reference "German Combat Planes", Ray Wagner and Heinz Nowarra.

my quote is from him confirmed by two other pilots one besides being a Captain. the three were followed by ground control with also confirmation by one of the chief test pilots witnessing the event through ground control procedures which was the rule of thumb at the time for Germany.

Are there test reports? Was the aircraft instrumented? Witnessing the event through ground control? Without an instrumented aircraft and data downlink, this is worthless.

Reschke performed several speed mods at 472mph at over 41,000 feet in the Tank

The FW charts shows that it would be significantly slower than that at that altitude. Max speed is shown at around 30k ft, airspeed drops off rather quickly above that. Something appears wrong.

hey what can I say if we are going to take what is evident in todays world compared what was done 59 years ago then they all lied ........... NOT

I am not sure I understand this statement. I would not say they lied, you just can't confirm that it was tested with the proper constaints and data to verify an observation.

A 56th fg Jug pilot that flew Loos Green 4 admitted back in the states it was everything that the German techs and pilots claimed

Test report? Another observation?

interesting challenge for 8th AF P-51 D's and K's....

The P-51Ds and Ks would be very hard pressed as they would be easily outperformed by the Ta-152H.

[Soren]

Davparlr,

You have misread the chart, note the speeds achieved with GM-1.