The Ta-152.... The Best High Altitude Fighter?????

lesofprimus · 04-07-2007, 09:05 PM

Quote:

But again, I'm not saying Tank was lying. I'm saying two things: it cannot be proven. And second, he would have benefitted from it as the P-51 was considered the plane to beat in 1944.
Kris

I would agree with u 100%...

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 04-08-2007, 10:01 AM

I dont think he lied about. As stated though it can not be proven. Having said that though the Ta-152 certainly could have flown faster than a P-51D so the story is not hard to believe either way.

Denniss · 04-08-2007, 01:02 PM

AFAIR he was not bounced by the P-51, Tank saw them first and escaped unharmed. It's not known whether they actually saw him.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 04-08-2007, 02:06 PM

That is probably case.

Civettone · 04-08-2007, 07:37 PM

You're right Denniss. Totally forgot about that.
I think that's the most likely story. Tank encountered those Mustangs, evaded and bragged about it later. Who wouldn't?

Kris

lesofprimus · 04-08-2007, 08:37 PM

I would... My Granpa always said the 152 was the finest prop job....

Ive been re-reading Willi's book for the umpteenth time, and just got back into the Tank part, chapter 9, where III/JG 301 re-equips with it...

The assessment of the 152H-0 over the 190A-8/R11's and 12's shows superiority through the entire flight envelope, including smaller turning radius with less tendency to stall at lower airspeed, rates of climb, speeds at various altitudes, on the wing, powerplant and load factors... Most trial took place from ground level to 3,000 meters....

Not exactly the 152's ideal fighting altitude huh???

ANother thing was that the test were conducted with a very good pilot at the stick of the 190, while the 152 pilot had just 2 flights in the type...

The A-8 was a formidable adversary for the Tempests, Spits and Stangs, with many Aces under her canopy... The 152, from the men who flew it operationally, was superior to anything that the Luftwaffe could put into the skies over Germany...

I love the plane..

Soren · 04-09-2007, 03:59 AM

Civettone,

Considering that there are incidents of FW-190 A-8's out-running P-51's on the deck I don't see why the Ta-152H which is faster at this alt shouldn't.

As to identification, well from long distance there was no way to tell what a/c the Ta-152 was related to, not only the wings were different from the 190, the nose was longer as-well.

Civettone · 04-09-2007, 10:46 AM

Soren, I never said that the Ta 152H couldn't outrun the Mustang. As you no doubt know, and as your example of the theoretically slower Fw 190A shows, there are more factors than speed to outrun an aircraft. There's visibility, manoeuvring, reflexes, identification, ... and probably the one which took place in that encounter: not detecting the enemy aircraft.

What was the exact date of the encounter? Wasn't the Fw 190D in service yet?
Kris

Soren · 04-09-2007, 10:54 AM

The nose of the Ta-152 was longer than that of the Dora as-well.

Erich · 04-09-2007, 11:08 AM

Kris :

The Dora was in service in III./JG 54 in September 1944

remember the JaPo volume(s) 1 and 2 on the Dora already published and then following up is E.E.'s 2 volume set on the bird.

as to the Tank case of spotting the P-51's and running I believe he was testing a C variant........

♫

Civettone · 04-09-2007, 03:04 PM

Soren, most people can't tell the Fw 190D and Ta 152 apart if not for the wings. For your average pilot the Ta 152H would look like a Dora with long wings. In any case, they didn't report any aircraft which looked like this.

Kris

lesofprimus · 04-09-2007, 04:23 PM

The Tank does not have the cowl mounted guns...

lesofprimus · 04-09-2007, 07:04 PM

On 2 March 1945, II/JG 301 and its 12 Ta 152H-0's and 1's were flying as the fighter escort of the Heavy Gruppe at 8,000 meters, when they were attacked by Bf 109G-10's of IV/JG 301, wearing the same yellow and red fuselage band....

The Tank Staffel was ordered to "climb up and stay with the formation", but still the 109s pursued and attacked the new 152H's...

The 152H's easily disengaged from the 109s without loss....

One thing this showed was that the Ta 152H could climb away from the fighters of the other Gruppen, showing the superiority of the Tank...

Erich · 04-09-2007, 07:24 PM

and that the former bomber pilots flying as fighter pilots in IV./JG 301 couldn't tell what was a German fighter or no.

side note IV./JG 301 flew maybe 2-3 missions and were almost totally wiped out

lesofprimus · 04-09-2007, 07:33 PM

Yea, the number of former bomber pilots throughout the Luftwaffe in 1945 was nothing more than lambs for the slaughter...