The Ta-152.... The Best High Altitude Fighter?????

KraziKanuK · 02-19-2005, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RG_Lunatic

The Ta had a lot of twist to its wing, and it was spread across a wide area not at a joint.

And how much is a lot of twist?

02-20-2005, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KraziKanuK

Quote:

Originally Posted by RG_Lunatic

The Ta had a lot of twist to its wing, and it was spread across a wide area not at a joint.

And how much is a lot of twist?

I'll have to dig out the figure, but I think it was 2 degrees at the first joint, and then another 6 degrees out to the wingtip. There used to be a page giving very detailed info on the TA but it is either gone or down right now.

Gemhorse · 02-20-2005, 02:26 AM

Tell you who may know something on the Ta-152.... Claus Colling and his partner at Flugwerk, [whose building the rebuilt Fw-190's], could know something, as they spoke with Kurt Tank in their early development days, I believe....

Erich · 02-20-2005, 07:30 PM

Udet, II./JG 301 was the only gruppe in the Geschwader to be outfitted with the Fw 190D in 5-7th staffeln only. The I./JG 301 had the A-9 in 1945 and the 8th staffel in II. gruppe had the A-8 and A-9. Only III./JG 301 had the Tank and again as I said for an immensely short period transfering all stocks to the Geschwader stab; the III./JG 301 going back to the A-9 but primarily the heavier A-8's and A-8/R2's but without extra SturmFw armor.

E ~

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 03-06-2005, 12:38 PM

The problem with taking peoples accounts is that all pilots exagerate what happened.

Now RG what alltitude are you talking about. At high alltitudes a Ta-152 would outfly a P-51D.

03-06-2005, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

The problem with taking peoples accounts is that all pilots exagerate what happened.

Now RG what alltitude are you talking about. At high alltitudes a Ta-152 would outfly a P-51D.

Certainly. But what was the point of a "superior" fighter at 35+ thousand feet?

The TA was designed to counter a threat that never materialized - B-29's at 33-35 thousand feet. Had such a campaign have been pursued, appropriate high-altitidude fighters along the lines of the P-47J, P-38K, and P-51H would have been given development priority.

The TA was the result of a successful deception. Germany was convinced the B-29 was headed for Europe, and spent resources to develop a fighter to counter it. How many hundreds of very effective Dora9's were sacrificed to deploy something between 35-60 TA's ?

=S=

Lunatic

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 03-07-2005, 09:06 AM

There were 674 Doras built of all types. Later ones were built as Ta-152's. Whether deception or not, the Ta-152 was an excellent aircraft and you can not deny that.

Erich · 03-07-2005, 10:44 AM

curious why is there always reference to the B-29 in Europe and the German counter to it by developing the Ta 152. I have interviewed vets from JG 301 and nothing has ever been said about this......

03-07-2005, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

There were 674 Doras built of all types. Later ones were built as Ta-152's. Whether deception or not, the Ta-152 was an excellent aircraft and you can not deny that.

Hmmm... info I have indicates more Dora9's than 674, I believe the figure is 850? I agree the Ta was an excellent aircraft but I'm not sure it was as good as it is made out to be. It is impossible to judge such things until tested in combat - and I don't mean a few prototypes. In very small quantities such a plane enjoys an "unknown quantitiy" advantage, its pilots know what to expect from the enemy planes, but the enemy has no idea what to expect from it.

At altitudes below 30,000 feet, I suspect the Dora9 or Dora12 were probably better than the Ta.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erich

curious why is there always reference to the B-29 in Europe and the German counter to it by developing the Ta 152. I have interviewed vets from JG 301 and nothing has ever been said about this......

Why would you think the pilots would know anything about this? Since when did military intelligence share such details with pilots until they "needed to know" them?

It is well known that the German spies reported on the B-29 and the German's thought it was destine for Europe.

=S=

Lunatic

Erich · 03-07-2005, 11:47 AM

I thought so.............bull.

You are not aware then of JG 301 capabilities and the closeness of the units Kameraden. The Ta 152 was designed to take on anything at high altitude not just high flying heavies. New marks of the 262 and other jet types developed by Focke Wulf were to take on the mysterious higher altitidue RAF and US bomber formations....

03-07-2005, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erich

I thought so.............bull.

You are not aware then of JG 301 capabilities and the closeness of the units Kameraden. The Ta 152 was designed to take on anything at high altitude not just high flying heavies. New marks of the 262 and other jet types developed by Focke Wulf were to take on the mysterious higher altitidue RAF and US bomber formations....

Where did I say it was limited only to taking on high flying heavies? It was built in anticipation that the altitude of combat was going to be moving up, and this belief was based upon reports about the B-29.

More on the "new jets" of the Luftwaffe? Jets w/o engines are just ... bad gliders.

=S=

Lunatic

Erich · 03-07-2005, 07:07 PM

Stoßseufzer

03-07-2005, 07:38 PM

Groan all you want Erich but the fact is the engines were the achilles heel of all these "wonder planes".

At the same time, the British and Americans were building jet engines of their own with TWICE the power!

Erich · 03-07-2005, 08:43 PM

twice the power not to bee seen in action...........

RG your full of crap ! The tA was not built for contention of the B-29. I asked you for your source on this and none is provided.

Go interview some German vets that have flown the a/c.

Crap on the jet **** right now ok ?

03-07-2005, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erich

twice the power not to bee seen in action...........

RG your full of crap ! The tA was not built for contention of the B-29. I asked you for your source on this and none is provided.

Go interview some German vets that have flown the a/c.

Crap on the jet s**t right now ok ?

The TA was intended to establish air-dominance above 35,000 feet. This was in response to the belief the B-29 was to be deployed in Europe. I never said the Ta was specifically built to intercept B-29's. It was built to clear the way for not only Ta's but also other German high-altitude interceptors to do so. Clearly it was intended to be capable of bomber interception - the MK108 was not a very good choice for fighter combat.

Quote:

When Germany declared war on the USA, the Luftwaffe had initially assumed that the Americans would give the war in the Pacific their first priority, and had not worried too much about high-altitude bombing raids from B-17 bombers. However, by the autumn of 1942, it became readily apparent that the USAAF was planning a full-scale massive bombing campaign against Germany from its bases in the UK, and that the Luftwaffe would soon require fighters with better high-altitude performances to face the threat from American bombers. By that time, the Luftwaffe was also aware of the existence of the B-29, and they were also aware that the existing Fw 190 would be incapable of effectively intercepting this American bomber at the altitudes at which it was supposedly capable of operating. Consequently, Dipl.-Ing Kurt Tank undertook the development of of a Hochleistungsjäger, or High-performance Fighter, offering a much improved combat ceiling.
http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevo...her/ta152.html

=S=

Lunatic