Tactical Strikes of World War II

[plan_D]

Syscom, you just stated that no light or medium bombers raided across the Rhine. Wilhelmshaven is a long way east of the Rhine. I apologise, I assumed that showing you the two sorties to Wilhelmshaven on 3rd September would show you the RAF was willing to send medium and light bombers to Germany. Obviously you're not intelligent enough to catch on to that.
Once again though, you're back pedalling. It's clear to everyone that you stated no light or medium bombers raided across the Rhine until 1944 or 1945. I've proven that they did so in 1939. So, now, 1939 doesn't count. And only 1942, 1943 and early 1944 count? Well, Adler just provided some.


I still don't have a clue what you're trying to get at while talking about the US 8th Air Force.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

He has no clue what he is talking about pD. He is stalling time, hoping that people will jump on someone else in another thread and forget that he is clueless.

[plan_D]

I know. It's sad, but amusing.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Yeap I really do find it funny.

A tactical bomber pilot from the RAF could come online and tell him how effective there small unit tactical raids were during the war even the ones that he flew on in 1941, and syscom would argue with him because syscom knows more about than he does. It really is funny. Syscom would argue with a barndoor because he can accept that he does not know something.

[syscom3]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Absolutely wrong agin syscom and I can prove it to you.

Remember the war was allready going on before the Americans entered. The British were fighting (yes syscom WW2 started before Dec. 7, 1941).

The British were using Mosquitos in small numbers to bomb Germany as early as 1942.

The first raid was by 5 Mosquitos to Koeln Germany on 31 May 1942. This raid accomplished nothing but keep the Germans off there guard but it was still a raid.

19 Sept 1942: 6 Mosquitos attacked Berlin

Those are just two example, do you care to retract your statement syscom?

the Mosquito's couldnt be considered as light bombers as they performed more like fighter bombers.

Now show me an A20 attack into the Rhur that didnt get slaughtered.

[syscom3]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Just did numbnuts!

show me what?

[plan_D]

So, now, we have no medium or light bombers attacking across the Rhine until late 1944 or 1945. Then it changed to 1939-1941 don't count. And now we have to show an A-20 raid before from 1942 to early 1944.

[syscom3]

Originally Posted by plan_D

Syscom, you just stated that no light or medium bombers raided across the Rhine. Wilhelmshaven is a long way east of the Rhine. I apologise, I assumed that showing you the two sorties to Wilhelmshaven on 3rd September would show you the RAF was willing to send medium and light bombers to Germany. Obviously you're not intelligent enough to catch on to that.
Once again though, you're back pedalling. It's clear to everyone that you stated no light or medium bombers raided across the Rhine until 1944 or 1945. I've proven that they did so in 1939. So, now, 1939 doesn't count. And only 1942, 1943 and early 1944 count? Well, Adler just provided some.


I still don't have a clue what you're trying to get at while talking about the US 8th Air Force.

Youre absolutley right about Wilhemshaven being to the east of the Rhine.

And considering how poorly germany was defended in 1939, anyone could have attacked with light bombers. But when the defenses went into place, then it was suicide for any medium or light bombers to attack. And thats what the 8th AF learned with the B26 and A20 raids early in 1943 (even after the RAF told them not to).

Now show me where they attacked Germany far from the coasts?

[Gnomey]

Just an extract from the bomber command diary for July 1942:

2/3 July 1942

Bremen

325 aircraft - 175 Wellingtons, 53 Lancasters, 35 Halifaxes, 34 Stirlings, 28 Hampdens. 13 aircraft - 8 Wellingtons, 2 Hampdens, 2 Stirlings, 1 Halifax - lost.

265 aircraft claimed to have bombed in good visibility but it is probable that much of the attack fell outside the southern borders of the town. A brief Bremen report says that more than 1,000 houses and 4 small industrial firms were damaged. 3 cranes and 7 ships in the port were also hit; 1 of the ships, the 1,736-ton steamer Marieborg sank and is recorded as having become a danger to navigation. Only 5 people were killed and 4 injured.

Intruders: 24 Blenheims were dispatched and attacked many airfields without loss.

(RAF History - Bomber Command 60th Anniversary)

There you can see light/medium bombers raiding east of the Rhine (albeit with heavy bombers), the Blenheim mission in particular you claim would be suicide yet they returned without loss. The same could be said for the unarmed Mosquito bombers (you can't call the unarmed ones fighter bombers) which are also light bombers and raided beyond the Rhine on most days of the war during from 1942 onwards during both the day and the night and they had some of the lowest losses in bomber command...

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by syscom3

the Mosquito's couldnt be considered as light bombers as they performed more like fighter bombers.

Wrong! Read up on your history of Mosquito (I know it is not a US built aircraft but it did still exist), and you might know that. There were Mosquitos that were under [/b]Fighter Command[/b] and there Mosquitos that were under Bomber Command. The ones that fell under Fighter Command acted as fighter bombers, the ones under Bomber Command acted as full Bobmers carrying 2000 to 4000 pounds of bombs.

Now you are getting desperate syscom. Give it the hell up!

Originally Posted by syscom3

Now show me an A20 attack into the Rhur that didnt get slaughtered.

If they went in as a strategic strike, yes they would be slaughterd, but as small tactical strikes (which you would not really do in the Ruhr area anyhow, because you would use large formations of strategic heavy bombers to bomb the industry there) then yes the A-20 would be successful.

Tell me syscom if the A-20 was slaughtered so much, then why the USAAF continue to use it.

Your argument carries no wieght again. When will you see this.

[plan_D]

Gnomey, that doesn't count. Because they're not A-20 raids! The only way, at the moment, to prove him wrong is to provide an A-20 raid after 1941 but before 1944. Far from the coast in Germany. Duh!!

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by syscom3

show me what?

Proved you wrong, but you are so blind to it as usual...

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Okay here is an A-20 raid.

07 April 1942. 12 A-20s (6 from the 15th USAAF group and 6 from RAF 226 Squadron) attacked German airfields.

[syscom3]

Originally Posted by Gnomey

Just an extract from the bomber command diary for July 1942:

(RAF History - Bomber Command 60th Anniversary)

There you can see light/medium bombers raiding east of the Rhine (albeit with heavy bombers), the Blenheim mission in particular you claim would be suicide yet they returned without loss. The same could be said for the unarmed Mosquito bombers (you can't call the unarmed ones fighter bombers) which are also light bombers and raided beyond the Rhine on most days of the war during from 1942 onwards during both the day and the night and they had some of the lowest losses in bomber command...

isnt Breman a port city? and didnt they bomb this city at night?

Now quote me an actuall raid into central germany east of the rhur where medium or light bombers were used during daylight.

[syscom3]

Originally Posted by plan_D

So, now, we have no medium or light bombers attacking across the Rhine until late 1944 or 1945. Then it changed to 1939-1941 don't count. And now we have to show an A-20 raid before from 1942 to early 1944.

Youre cherry picking the attack on port cities where the bombers can approach with near impunity.

raids in 1939-1941 dont count as defenses havent been built up in germany yet.

now show me a light bomber raid into germany proper, during 1943 and most of 1944 when the Luftwaffe would have been in strength