Tactical Strikes of World War II

FLYBOYJ · 07-31-2006, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by syscom3

The A26 had a payload that was in the medium bomber specifications. It was considered an attack bomber, not a light bomber. Regardless of the designation, it was going to follow the B26 tactics of medium altitude attacks.

And it did where it replaced other "medium bombers." Where it replaced the A-20 it fulfilled the same role as the A-20...

FLYBOYJ · 07-31-2006, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by syscom3

Ive been saying tactical airstrikes by multi engined light bombers were ineffective and a waste of resources.

And why were there 3 Bomb groups and 11 bomb squadrons of light bombers in the 9th AF?

syscom3 · 07-31-2006, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

And it did where it replaced other "medium bombers." Where it replaced the A-20 it fulfilled the same role as the A-20...

the A26's did exactly what the B26's had been doing since they joined combat in 1943. And thats to stay up at 10,000 ft. Go in fast, dump your load and get out.

syscom3 · 07-31-2006, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

And why were there 3 Bomb groups and 11 bomb squadrons of light bombers in the 9th AF?

You have to fly with what youve got. The A20 groups in the 9th and 12th AF were being converted to A26's when the war ended. If the wat had gone on for a few more months, there would have been zero A20 groups.

Quite simply, in the ETO, the A20 didnt have the payload to make things worthwhile.

B25 = good
B26 = good
A26 = good
A20 = mediocre (at best)
P38 = good
P47 = good

FLYBOYJ · 07-31-2006, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by syscom3

You have to fly with what youve got. The A20 groups in the 9th and 12th AF were being converted to A26's when the war ended. If the wat had gone on for a few more months, there would have been zero A20 groups.

There were plenty of other aircraft readily availble. If 9th AF brass had anything against the A-20 it would of been gone prior to D Day, it would of got dumped the same way the P-38 was taken out of service. BTW the A-26 was designed to replace the A-20, this taking place when Edward Heinemann and Robert Donovan came up with an unsolicited proposal in 1941 for a replacement for not only the A-20, but the B-25 and the B-26.

Quote:

Originally Posted by syscom3

Quite simply, in the ETO, the A20 didnt have the payload to make things worthwhile.

The plan was to replace the A-20 long before and was actually instigated by Douglas. The 9th AF continued to operate the A-20 because it was effective, a good flying airplane and it fulfilled its mission - just ask the guys at Bastonge when A-20s of the 410th BG helped flatten convoys in and around the Ardennes during the Battle of the Bulge, the 410th BG got a Distinguished Unit Citation for its participation. BTW the A-20 bomb groups of the 9th AF were one of the only (and probably the only) US bomb group to perform their mission at night... By far the A-20 didn't win the war in Europe but to say they were ineffective is nonsense.

lesofprimus · 07-31-2006, 10:03 PM

Quote:

By far the A-20 didn't win the war in Europe but to say they were ineffective is nonsense.

Agreed 100%.... Syscom will not admit he is wrong about any of this.... Its rather disturbing actually...

k9kiwi · 08-01-2006, 12:19 AM

Getting back to the original premise of this thread.

Syscom

Could you please provide the difference between a Tactical and a Strategic target, in your own words, longer than one syllable.

syscom3 · 08-01-2006, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

There were plenty of other aircraft readily availble. If 9th AF brass had anything against the A-20 it would of been gone prior to D Day, it would of got dumped the same way the P-38 was taken out of service. BTW the A-26 was designed to replace the A-20, this taking place when Edward Heinemann and Robert Donovan came up with an unsolicited proposal in 1941 for a replacement for not only the A-20, but the B-25 and the B-26.

The 9th wanted any plane it could get. In this case they got a good plane that was the designed for a doctrine that was no longer valid. The A20 was a fine plane, it just didnt have a role for it.

Quote:

The plan was to replace the A-20 long before and was actually instigated by Douglas. The 9th AF continued to operate the A-20 because it was effective, a good flying airplane and it fulfilled its mission - just ask the guys at Bastonge when A-20s of the 410th BG helped flatten convoys in and around the Ardennes during the Battle of the Bulge, the 410th BG got a Distinguished Unit Citation for its participation. BTW the A-20 bomb groups of the 9th AF were one of the only (and probably the only) US bomb group to perform their mission at night... By far the A-20 didn't win the war in Europe but to say they were ineffective is nonsense.

Good for the 410th. Too bad they didnt have A26's as they could have done even more. And the 9th would have replaced its final A20 group with A26's had the war gone on for a bit longer. Think of that, 3 A20 groups to start and the 9th thought so highly of it, they converted 2 groups to A26's.

syscom3 · 08-01-2006, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lesofprimus

Agreed 100%.... Syscom will not admit he is wrong about any of this.... Its rather disturbing actually...

I look at the bottom line. It was among the first to be replaced by A26's.

If the A20's were so effective, why didnt the 9th and 12th relace their b26's first?

syscom3 · 08-01-2006, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k9kiwi

Getting back to the original premise of this thread.

Syscom

Could you please provide the difference between a Tactical and a Strategic target, in your own words, longer than one syllable.

I will tomorrow. Im going to bed. (that is seven words and 25 letters)

plan_D · 08-01-2006, 04:35 AM

"And the Mosquito is more a fighter bomber than a light attack bomber. And all plan_D has proven is a few mosquito's flew to Berlin, (at night no doubt) but never did they go in a mass raid on a worthwhile tactical target east of the Rhine. (Sorry Plan_D, coastal targets dont cut it, it has to be welll within german borders)."

How is a Mosquito with no guns a fighter-bomber?

You stated that no medium bomber or light bomber raided east of the Rhine before late 1944. The Mosquito did. You never mentioned what targets were supposed to be attacked. And since I mentioned the Mosquito was the first to raid Berlin by daylight, it wasn't always at night. And Berlin couldn't be much further into German borders!

So, syscom, from the original statement of no medium or light bombers crossed the Rhine before late 1944 it has changed to no medium or light bombers crossed between 1941 - 1943 by daylight, the Mosquito doesn't count, and nor does Berlin or coastal targets.

Basically everyone, when syscom said no light or medium bombers crossed the Rhine before late 1944 he meant: "No US 9th Air Force A-20s or B-26s bombed Nurnberg on 19th August, 1943" And this proves his point that A-20s were useless.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 08-01-2006, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by syscom3

I'm not french and have no desire to give it up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by syscom3

Exactly what I say about you

Its not worth argueing over with you anymore anyhow.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 08-01-2006, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by syscom3

And what german field was that?

Sounds like it was A20's attacking german airfields in occupied France.

Dont know, I dont have any other info on that.

Basically what I am saying is this:

There are more to tactical bombing than bombing airfields and rail yards. Tactical bombing includes attacking strategic targets such as damns, docks, tank formations, bunkers, etc....

Tactical bombing by light bombers and medium bombers successfully helped win the war. No matter how you put it and no matter how much you disagree, you are wrong.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 08-01-2006, 05:50 AM

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Originally Posted by syscom3

yes he has some good facts at his disposal. but not all of them.

And neither do you, atleast you have not shown any in this thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by syscom3

Ive admitted Ive been wrong before.

Except in this one.

Thats okay I am tired of looking up facts that you just discredit because they disprove your ideas.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 08-01-2006, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plan_D

Of course the Mosquito went to Berlin during the day, it was the first Allied bomber to raid Berlin in daylight!

Yeap I gave him one source. He obviously did not read it as most things that others post. The raid by the mosquitos that I posted to Berlin for the Nazi party rally was during a Nazi party rally during the day and was timed for when Goering was to give his speech.