Tactical Strikes of World War II

[plan_D]

Without the 2nd Tactical Air Force and US 9th Air Force tactical bombing raids, Operation Overlord would have been a failure.

[Glider]

Originally Posted by syscom3

blah blah blah.

Ive been trying to say that that precision bombing did not exist in WW2. It happened in a few raids by very well trained crews but as a rule for everyone, those raids were very far and few between, and often didnt have any impact on the course of the war or battle.

It was the massed groups of bombers dropping lots of bombs plastering everything around the aiming point is what did damage and did effect the battles.

72 B26's hitting an airfield will do more lasting damage with hundreds of bombs hitting all over the place, than a few bombers could. And that goes for a lot of other targets too.

I think we can say that we are still waiting for your evidence. All you seem to be supporting is the Bomber Cammand Area bombing approach.

[syscom3]

Originally Posted by plan_D

Without the 2nd Tactical Air Force and US 9th Air Force tactical bombing raids, Operation Overlord would have been a failure.

I never claimed it wouldnt. On the contrary, the medium bomber campaign ensured victory and hastened the collapse of Nazi Germany.

[syscom3]

You will have to wait untill tomorrow.

I found website of all the missions of a B26 group in the 12th AF.

Its on my work PC, so you will just have to wait.

[plan_D]

Syscom:

"Now tell me what small raids changed the course of the war or battle? Not the fighter bomber ones, but the medium bomber missions."

Me :

"Without the 2nd Tactical Air Force and US 9th Air Force tactical bombing raids, Operation Overlord would have been a failure."

Syscom:

"I never claimed it wouldnt. On the contrary, the medium bomber campaign ensured victory and hastened the collapse of Nazi Germany."

So, you assault the tactical air force small raids as being useless. Yet, these raids combined with each other secured the victory of Overlord. To which you now agree. Correct? The battle that medium bomber raids won, was Overlord.

I am waiting. Although I requested the 9th AF B-26 raids, I would be interested in the 12th AF as well, I suppose. Despite the fact these raids were in North Africa and MTO, not ETO.

[syscom3]

The 12 AF had the same doctrine as the 9th AF.

Same targets, pretty much the same number of bomb groups.

Of course you remember that several 12th AF groups ended up in France after operation dragoon. Or did you not know that.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I think syscom has finally come to the conclusion that he is clueless at how warfare is won.

Les you hit the nail when you called him out on it.

pD you have been hitting the nail the whole time. Syscom just can not admit that he does not know something.

[lesofprimus]

Notice how sys didnt comment on pD's last post concerning Overlord???

Hmmmmmmmmmmm...

[syscom3]

Originally Posted by plan_D

.....
"Without the 2nd Tactical Air Force and US 9th Air Force tactical bombing raids, Operation Overlord would have been a failure."

Syscom:

"I never claimed it wouldnt. On the contrary, the medium bomber campaign ensured victory and hastened the collapse of Nazi Germany."

Les, look closer, I responded to it already.

[Tony Williams]

I really don't see what the argument is about. Nazi Germany was defeated by a wide range of different measures, none of which was decisive by itself but the cumulative effect did the job. These included the following, in the last couple of years of the war:

- naval and air anti-submarine efforts to keep the Atlantic clear enough to amass enough troops and supplies for Overlord

- Overlord itself and the campaign resulting from that

- the campaign in Italy stretching German resources

- close support by fighter bombers

- interdiction by medium bombers

- strategic destruction by heavy bombers

- and, above all, the overwhelming ground campaign by our Soviet Allies.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum

[syscom3]

320th Bomb Group webpage:
320th Bomb Group and B-26 Marauder

Mission list:
B-26 320th Bomb Group Missions

Number of aircraft per mission varied considerbly, although on numerous occasions, more than 30 aircraft were sortied, with 54 being the most (Mission 462, to Offenburg Marshalling Yards (Germany), Feb 15 1945. http://320thbg.org/mission_pdfs/mission_472.pdf). whats interesting about this is a couple of B26's also taregtted and dropped fragmentation bombs on a nearby flak battery.

Untill I see more group mission lists and see what they were attacking on the same day, its conjecture on what targets warrented more than two groups attacking at the same time.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

You still have not shown any proof that the tactical bombing had no effect on the war. You have to prove it syscom. Everyone here knows what it takes to win a war, you obviously dont, so prove your case.

Having said that:

Until you do, I think the general concensus here is that you dont know what the hell you are talking about. You have realized it and are trying to talk your way out of it.

[Hunter368]

Not to jump on the band wagon, but I 110% agree that Tactical air strikes have a large impact on WW2 and any battle / war.

Sorry syscom3 I think you have a huge job to convince anyone otherwise.

[syscom3]

Someone quote me back me where I said tactical airstrikes did not help to win the battles.
And I dont mean tactical targets like what the FAC's would call in for the fighter bombers to destroy. I'm talking tactical targets the multi engined bombers went after.

I have all along said that a few aircraft carrying small payloads are not going to destroy big targets as precision bombing was a near impossibility in WW2 (the rare exception, not the rule). And the tactical targets that were important, needed lots of bombs to damage or destroy it.

[Glider]

I believe the phrase you used was a stunt.

You seem not to grasp the concept that putting an aircraft and aircrew at risk to carry a single 1000 pound bomb which is not a war or battle winner but more of a stunt.

How many raids on your evidence were 200a/c
I would sum it up this way. just because the RAF didnt have the resources necessary to launch raids involving 200 or so medium bombers, didnt mean the AAF couldnt do it.

Now think about how many tons of bombs are needed to take out an airfield 1 square kilometer. It would take lots, and the 9th and 12th air forces had the planes and aircrews to do it.

Some more examples from your postings
And theres no evidence of these small raids of several planes hitting tiny targets did anything to shorten the war or help things out.

That Mosquito raid on the Gestapo HQ, while deservadly an excellenty planned and executed raid, did nothing. Although the people in the jail probably think it was the most importannt bombing raid in history.

What made the tactical bombing effective and helped the ground troops were mass raids plastering the sinews of war and wearing down the Germans from lack of loguistics.