Tactical Strikes of World War II

[lesofprimus]

Originally Posted by syscom

The Germans never were short of manpower to do the repair work.

Yea right, and thats why they sent the majority of their ground personnel to the front and replaced the black men with WOMEN.....

[syscom3]

Originally Posted by lesofprimus

Yea right, and thats why they sent the majority of their ground personnel to the front and replaced the black men with WOMEN.....

black men? The Germans had large numbers of blacks?

[syscom3]

Originally Posted by Glider

During the BOB one of the command centers was destroyed (by a small German raid) and like syscom said they were able to move to temporary buildings, rig up new telephone lines, install new radio's and recommence operations.

The bit he would probably forget to remember, is the bit where they could only direct one squadron instead of an entire wing. This was (and I bet its no suprise) because temporary lash ups no matter how good, are never as good as the purpose built buildings.

Syscom, I don't suppose there is an outside chance that you can supply some evidence to either
a) Support your contentions that small raids did no damage
b) That my evidence and many others are wrong.

Go on give some examples.

Quote from the RAF Biggin Hill Site to support above
The size of the raid
a small formation of less than a dozen bombers at low level reduced Biggin Hill to a shambles with 1,000 lb. bombs. Workshops, stores, barracks, W.A.A.F. quarters and a hangar were wrecked.

Again, on September lst there were two attacks, the second of which by Dornier Do 17s, hit runways and the Sector Operations Room.

Impact on operations
For one week however the damage was so severe that only one squadron could operate from it.

Now see if that raid in 1943 or 1944 would accomplish the same thing.

A couple years of bombing taught everyone what needed to have ready spares available, and what needed to be fixed quickly to get things back operating.

[lesofprimus]

black men? The Germans had large numbers of blacks?

Dude, u know as well as I do what that means, so dont skirt the point made...

[plan_D]

Well, syscom, you've been proven wrong on another point. You claim that repairing runways was easy, and could be done within hours. Well, we have to thank Bullockracing for soundly proving you wrong there.

[Glider]

Originally Posted by syscom3

Now see if that raid in 1943 or 1944 would accomplish the same thing.

A couple years of bombing taught everyone what needed to have ready spares available, and what needed to be fixed quickly to get things back operating.

This might come as a suprise to you, but we had been at war for over a year at this stage and had a pretty good idea as to what was important or not.

The UK had the best infrastructure in the world at the time for repair work be it repairing aircraft, airfields, radar stations, communications etc.

A nice little well documented, well known example, that proves that everything that you say is wrong. The best you can do is imply that the UK wasn't trying, in the one battle that everyone acknowledges was critical to our survival.

Once again you have a total lack of evidence although I admit this doesn't surprise me, or I suspect anyone else.

Your ignorance in this is pretty astonishing.

[plan_D]

I'm still waiting, albeit passively, for his sources that provide him with the information so he can "agree" with my aircraft numbers for US Ninth Air Force raids in 1943.

Syscom:

"Now tell me what small raids changed the course of the war or battle? Not the fighter bomber ones, but the medium bomber missions."

Ever heard about the 'Dinner' Raid? It happened on the 10th June, 1944. It used 42 Typhoons and 71 Mitchells (113 bombers and fighter-bombers) with 33 Spitfires in escort.

Research it, syscom, and tell us all what happened on the 'Dinner' Raid. You do some research for once. And don't try and lie, because I've got the whole story right here.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Oh boy come on now syscom, how much more of this are we going to be forced to take!

[syscom3]

Originally Posted by plan_D

Well, syscom, you've been proven wrong on another point. You claim that repairing runways was easy, and could be done within hours. Well, we have to thank Bullockracing for soundly proving you wrong there.

Runways in the Pacific tended to be crushed coral and or plain old dirt. And yes, some of them even had PSP plates. Even the Japanese repaired their airfields quickly (at least in the early part of the war before their logistical system collapsed).

Many runways in the ETO in the ETO also were dirt fields.

Dirt runways are easy to fix.
PSP covered runways are easy to fix too.
Concrete is tougher to fix, but that wasnt a show stopper.

[syscom3]

Originally Posted by plan_D

I'm still waiting, albeit passively, for his sources that provide him with the information so he can "agree" with my aircraft numbers for US Ninth Air Force raids in 1943.

Syscom:

"Now tell me what small raids changed the course of the war or battle? Not the fighter bomber ones, but the medium bomber missions."

Ever heard about the 'Dinner' Raid? It happened on the 10th June, 1944. It used 42 Typhoons and 71 Mitchells (113 bombers and fighter-bombers) with 33 Spitfires in escort.

Research it, syscom, and tell us all what happened on the 'Dinner' Raid. You do some research for once. And don't try and lie, because I've got the whole story right here.

Ahhh, but you will note the following:
1) 113 medium and fighter bombers is not a small raid.
2) B25's carry a usefull payload and are not lugging a single small bomb.
3) The Typhoons are not soley a light bomber, as once they drop their load, they become fighters. Plus they can strafe things on the way back if they want.

So what is your point.

[syscom3]

Originally Posted by Glider

This might come as a suprise to you, but we had been at war for over a year at this stage and had a pretty good idea as to what was important or not.

The UK had the best infrastructure in the world at the time for repair work be it repairing aircraft, airfields, radar stations, communications etc.

A nice little well documented, well known example, that proves that everything that you say is wrong. The best you can do is imply that the UK wasn't trying, in the one battle that everyone acknowledges was critical to our survival.

Once again you have a total lack of evidence although I admit this doesn't surprise me, or I suspect anyone else.

Your ignorance in this is pretty astonishing.

In 1942, the US maintained Henderson field with practically zero logistical help and maintained operations from a single small hut. Now does that mean the Marines who maintained the field were superior to the Brits? Or does it mean most airfields are not that difficult to keep in operation.

Your ignorance in this is pretty astonishing.

Actually the converse is true

[syscom3]

Originally Posted by plan_D

I'm still waiting, albeit passively, for his sources that provide him with the information so he can "agree" with my aircraft numbers for US Ninth Air Force raids in 1943.

What makes you think I disagree with your numbers for the 9th AF?

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by syscom3

Runways in the Pacific tended to be crushed coral and or plain old dirt. And yes, some of them even had PSP plates. Even the Japanese repaired their airfields quickly (at least in the early part of the war before their logistical system collapsed).

Many runways in the ETO in the ETO also were dirt fields.

Dirt runways are easy to fix.
PSP covered runways are easy to fix too.
Concrete is tougher to fix, but that wasnt a show stopper.

It would still take more than an hour to fix those runways in WW2. Even if it only took an hour, that is one whole hour that German aircraft are not in the air from that field. One whole hour that they are not attacking ground troops or tank formations. One hour that they are not up attacking bomber formations.

Yeah syscom that is not helping the war effort!

Thank god you dont run our military because we would be ****ed

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by syscom3

Or does it mean most airfields are not that difficult to keep in operation.

Well that shows you dont know what the hell you are talking about even more. I can tell you as someone that works on an airfield and flies from one everyday, that they are not simple to operate as you make it seem to be.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

There is more to an airfield than a concrete strip for planes to land and take off from and a building to run operations from.