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Tail gunner worth?

Aviation Discuss Tail gunner worth? in the World War II - Aviation forums; saw some memoir mentions of the fact that stuka is quite maneuverable. read a report that said il-2 turn ...


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Old 12-27-2006, 09:20 AM   #31
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saw some memoir mentions of the fact that stuka is quite maneuverable.
read a report that said il-2 turn time is slower 2 times and radius lesser 1.5 times (or vise versa) than 109's. so when il-2 goes virage, 109 should not follow it, because when it follows, it outruns il-2 by outer circle and comes to il-2's sight from below.
actually, the problem was bliezkrieg shock that did not allowed to train pilots well. soviets were just not quite ready for such a war in 1941. soviets expected war in 1942, because they did not believed that hitler will rush with 3 months in disposal before massive snow falls. soviet spies reported that wehrmacht does not have ANY hue about winter equipment. fuel, oil could not stand frosts, no winter wearings, no winter training for staff. attacking huge territory having only 3 months was a crazyness, and soviets really were not ready for war in autumn/41.

ok, so il-2 pilots were trained quite poor, and almost did not attempted to take an initiative in dogfight.
however, even heavy underpowered il-2 could become a tough opponent in dogfight with highly trained pilot. it was proven when two aces duelled, one in il-2, another in la-5. that ace (which later became an cosmonaut afair. g.t.beregovoy?) demonstrated that la-5 can have real troubles aiming at il-2, and even can find himself to be a target.
therefore, i think that many scouts without bombs technically can give an adequate answer to an interceptor.
but reality is another thing. most of pilots were trained not good enough to use all advantages of their airplanes. and being passive, many scouts were shot down.
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Old 12-27-2006, 10:20 AM   #32
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Most aircraft shot down were not shot down in a dog fight anyhow but were rather jumped. The one you did not see was the one that got you.
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Old 12-28-2006, 02:56 AM   #33
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even spotting bandits, VVS usually kept formation to carry out primary goal.
many veterans said that LW preferred to intercept strike planes AFTER the strike was done. sometimes LW even to avoided interception of well built flight group. with soviet doctrine in mind these veterans wondered why LW often allowed VVS to strike, because soviet pilots usually tried to indercept stukas and buffs BEFORE strike to prevent harm to army.
ah, back on topic: having spotted enemy ilyushins and petlyakovs preferred to tighten formation and to proceed combat course.
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Old 12-31-2006, 01:15 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Joe
Several SBD drivers (Stanley W Vejtasa) had multiple kills while flying the SBD.
As u may recall Joe, The "Swede" was my Grandfathers best friend for several decades, as was afectionatly known as Uncle Swede... He was one of the true blue died in the wool aviators...
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Old 12-31-2006, 02:13 AM   #35
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Im guessing on this but if enough research is done Im sure that there has to be at least one ace out there as a tail gunner with 5 or more confirmed kills. I do think for the most part we all agree having a second set of eyes are for the best though.
Hi guys!

I have been skimming through "Night After Night - New Zealanders In Bomber Command", and there is a rear gunner with 5 confirmed enemy kills, Ted de Joux, DFM, CGM. He shot down three Me109s in one firefight in 1941, and then two more during the later stage of the war to becoming one of the top-scoring rear gunner "aces" of World War Two.

James.
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Old 12-31-2006, 05:32 AM   #36
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yes there are a few in bomber command, interestingly none using any of the .50cal turrets as far as i'm aware, i haven't mentioned them here as they're asking about the rear gunners on dive bombers and other smaller aircraft..........
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Old 12-31-2006, 03:30 PM   #37
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As u may recall Joe, The "Swede" was my Grandfathers best friend for several decades, as was afectionatly known as Uncle Swede... He was one of the true blue died in the wool aviators...

Cool, what was his trick to downing Zeros?
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