 | Tail gunner worth?| Aviation Discuss Tail gunner worth? in the World War II - Aviation forums; What do the Stuka, Douglas Devastator, and Kate have in common?
They were slaughtered wholesale by fighters. How effective were ... |
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12-25-2006, 01:19 AM
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#1 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 2,265
Country:  | Tail gunner worth?
What do the Stuka, Douglas Devastator, and Kate have in common?
They were slaughtered wholesale by fighters. How effective were single engine tail gunners against fighter aircraft?
Other then the time Saburo Sakai misstook a TBF for a Hellcat, tailgunners haven't had much glory to exult. were they a waste of life and resources? | 
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12-25-2006, 07:16 AM
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#2 | | Master of Ewes
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 19,959
Country:  | certainly an interesting question, in bombers they had their merits but in dive bombers and attack aircraft they can be questioned, few had proper turrets so it was a case of sprey and prey, which rarely works, other than putting the attacker off they did little more than slow aircraft down considderably...........
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12-25-2006, 11:44 AM
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#3 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 2,265
Country: | no doubt
Certainly the tail gunner in single engine aircraft had an effect. The attacker would have to adjust it's tactics but i've always thought of "the stinger" as a minor annoyance that could be easily dealt with. Nobody every hears about famous rear gunners or rear gunner aces. It seems like a death sentence. They seem like more of a relic from slow moving WW1 aircraft, not the slash and dive of ww2. | |
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12-25-2006, 12:04 PM
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#4 | | Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,506
Country: | I would'nt consider it a minor thing, From what Ive read that the rear gunner played a major part in the IL-2 Stormovik. It was first created without a rear gunner but after heavy losses it was changed. I would think that just having a second pair of eye's could be helpfull.
It still had to make for a harder target because something was shooting back at you or just knowing something is shooting at you then a aircraft with nothing.
Remember the old saying for a fighter pilot.
Its the one you dont see that gets you. Not to mention the golden BB (more to flak but sure it could play a part in this aspect as well). It only takes one well placed shot to bring down a plane.
Micdrow 
Last edited by Micdrow : 12-25-2006 at 12:16 PM.
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12-25-2006, 12:38 PM
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#5 | | Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 69
Country: | yes, gunner for scouts is:
1.rear hemisphere observer
2.reccomendations to pilot which evasive is needed
3.far from zero chance to kill interceptor or at least to make him change his mind.
formation of 9 il-2 cannot considered as sitting ducks with their 9x12.7mm UB. often formation even can proceed a straight flight counting on concentrated fire of their gunners.
a bright example is attack of sakae to formation of 4 avengers, resulting in almost killing zero and ace. | |
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12-25-2006, 12:39 PM
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#6 | | Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 69
Country: | ah, sakae was quite lucky to survive in that episode. | |
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12-25-2006, 12:42 PM
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#7 | | the old Sage
Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere
Posts: 8,985
Country: | Ju 87D-5 Nacht radio op/gunners were a Godsend for the pilot during the low level attacks in the spring of 1945. have many interviews of P-61 crews of the 422nd and especially the 425th nfs who crept up on the slow movers and ready to give them a squirt when they immediately banked and hit the deck through the low ground haze and fog to save their rears. | |
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12-25-2006, 01:43 PM
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#8 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,456
Country:  | Whether the gunner was effective at shooting down enemy aircraft to me is not the point. The extra set of eyes at the rear of the aircraft is what made them important. The Stukas and other dive bombers did not get shot down because the gunner was worthless but because they could not tangle with the fighters.
Having that rear set of eyes is important in combat aviation and has been from the beginning to modern times. Trust me on this one, I know first hand.
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12-25-2006, 02:00 PM
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#9 | | Minister of Whoopass
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi
Posts: 12,951
Country: | As far as the IL-2 rear gunner, German pilots learned real fast to attack the armoured pig from below, eliminating the danger from the rear gunners pea-shooter...
Have to agree on the benefit of an extra pair of eyes tho...
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12-25-2006, 02:08 PM
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#10 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Royal Deeside/St Andrews, Scotland, UK
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Country: | Certainly the extra pair of eyes where of more worth than the rear armament which whilst they could inflict damage where unlikely to be shoot the attacker down, just deter a not so determined attacker.
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12-25-2006, 03:12 PM
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#11 | | Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by lesofprimus  As far as the IL-2 rear gunner, German pilots learned real fast to attack the armoured pig from below, eliminating the danger from the rear gunners pea-shooter... | sometimes troublesome to do when il-2 flies NOE | |
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12-25-2006, 03:20 PM
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#12 | | the old Sage
Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere
Posts: 8,985
Country: | not during 44-45 with the Ost front Geschwader and newer types of 2cm and 3cm ammo. Some pretty impressive scores against Il-2's | |
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12-25-2006, 03:38 PM
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#13 | | Minister of Whoopass
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi
Posts: 12,951
Country: | Insane scores were run up by the Luftwaffe boys on IL-2s.... Hit em in the oil resevoir and they're done...
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12-25-2006, 03:54 PM
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#14 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Jersey
Posts: 547
Country: | well on any plane that has a rear gunner the attacking pilot always takes into consideraton that "hey there is a guy back there with a gun that's bad." it's psychological effect i think even if the rear gunner wasn't effective
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12-25-2006, 03:59 PM
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#15 | | the old Sage
Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere
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Country: | take in consideration this .......... German night fighters trying to shoot down ancient Soviet single engines in the Ost. As you try to slow down not to overshoot, stall and then get popped by the rear gunner with his pop gun | |
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