 | Tail guuner| Aviation Discuss Tail guuner in the World War II - Aviation forums; Hey guys if you were a tail gunner which of these weapons would you prefer, 4 .30 caliber machine guns ... |
|
04-03-2006, 08:08 AM
|
#1 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2005 Location: Texas
Posts: 405
Country:  | Tail guuner
Hey guys if you were a tail gunner which of these weapons would you prefer, 4 .30 caliber machine guns or 2 .50 caliber machine guns? explain.
__________________ 
"And when he gets to heaven,
To Saint Peter he will tell;
One more marine reporting, sir-
I've served my time in hell." A marine gravemarker on guadalcanal | 
|  | |
04-03-2006, 08:10 AM
|
#2 | | Facetious Extraordinaire
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Northampton/Bournemouth, UK
Posts: 2,144
Country:  | 2 .50's. Got a better range and hitting power 
__________________  | |
| | |
04-03-2006, 11:55 AM
|
#3 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: City of the Angels California
Posts: 810
| Ditto, for the same reason- plus the ammo is more potent when you consider API compared to anything else.
__________________  | |
| | |
04-03-2006, 12:50 PM
|
#4 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 8,478
| A pair of .50's beats four "pea shooters" anyday.
__________________
"Pilot to copilot..... what are those mountain goats doing up here in the clouds?" | |
| | |
04-03-2006, 12:55 PM
|
#5 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Londonium
Posts: 610
| I suppose the four .30s could give slightly better coverage, but getting the extra hits probably isn't worth much if you don't do much damage when you do get hits.
Four .50s would be better
__________________
Never mistake knowledge for wisdom. One helps you make a living; the other helps you make a life. | |
| | |
04-03-2006, 10:09 PM
|
#6 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,857
Country:  | 2x 20mm hehehe, lol jk, 2x .50
__________________  "The German Luftwaffe always fought without any reserves. This is also the reason why we have pilots with extremely high numbers of victories."
- General der Jagdflieger Adolf Galland"  | |
| | |
04-03-2006, 10:40 PM
|
#7 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas
Posts: 1,013
Country: | I always wondered why the brits were so intent on .303s. Anyone know why?
__________________ "I had ten rockets on board, and as I wasn't particularly fond of head-on attacks, I salvoed the whole lot at him. The rockets didn't hit him but but they must have scared the bejesus out of him, for he did a steep turn to starboard... I let him have the full blast, all eight fifty-calibers. I had never seen an aircraft completely disintegrate in the air the way this Me-110 did..."
Bill Dunn, 406th Fighter Group 
Matt | |
| | |
04-04-2006, 01:34 PM
|
#8 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: City of the Angels California
Posts: 810
| .30 and .303 calibers were totally useless in even the thinnest armor penetration period.
__________________ | |
| | |
04-04-2006, 02:33 PM
|
#9 | | Konfused with a 'K'
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Turin, Italy
Posts: 20,412
Country:  | 2x .50's, CR.42 style.
__________________  with my one last gaping breath id apologise for bleeding on your shirt... | |
| | |
04-04-2006, 05:12 PM
|
#10 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 584
| I disagree Twitch - While they may not have been as effective as 2X.5's, they still ripped the tit off many enemy NF's....they could put a fair concentration of lead [of varying compositions] into a coupla square feet of target.
Great Britain had a shortage of armaments approaching the start of WWII, and .5's were hard to get. That's why Hurricanes & Spits had 8 - 12 x .303's that definately clawed many Luftwaffe aircraft down in the BoB....While they didn't make much impression on armour-plating, they still tore at everything else that was vulnerable. I'm sure every serving member of the British Armed Forces would've loved heavier calibre, but the .303's sufficed, especially in concert with 20mm cannons in fighters. Any Luftwaffe fighter attacking a British bomber with 4x .303 squirting back would've been ducking, I'm sure I would've....... | |
| | |
04-05-2006, 12:08 AM
|
#11 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas
Posts: 1,013
Country: | They may have been short on armaments, but why then did they request all american-bought aircraft be fitted with .303s instead of the stock .50s?
__________________ "I had ten rockets on board, and as I wasn't particularly fond of head-on attacks, I salvoed the whole lot at him. The rockets didn't hit him but but they must have scared the bejesus out of him, for he did a steep turn to starboard... I let him have the full blast, all eight fifty-calibers. I had never seen an aircraft completely disintegrate in the air the way this Me-110 did..."
Bill Dunn, 406th Fighter Group
Matt | |
| | |
04-05-2006, 07:35 AM
|
#12 | | Minister of Whoopass
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi
Posts: 13,308
Country: | There was a huge excess in Britian of the .303 cal round, so they used these guns to save the ammunition costs.....
__________________  "After That Second Kill, I Knew It Was Time To Get The Hell Outta There..."-- Lt. William Northrop Case
To See My IL2 Sturmovik Video Tribute to My Grandfather, Click Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtzN5RuNNJk | |
| | |
04-05-2006, 07:59 AM
|
#13 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2005 Location: Texas
Posts: 405
Country: | interesting. Nice info guys.
__________________
"And when he gets to heaven,
To Saint Peter he will tell;
One more marine reporting, sir-
I've served my time in hell." A marine gravemarker on guadalcanal | |
| | |
04-05-2006, 10:18 AM
|
#14 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,857
Country: | Luft pilots do comment on the little peas endlessly raining on their little fighter
__________________ "The German Luftwaffe always fought without any reserves. This is also the reason why we have pilots with extremely high numbers of victories."
- General der Jagdflieger Adolf Galland" | |
| | |
04-05-2006, 11:30 AM
|
#15 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: City of the Angels California
Posts: 810
| Eight thirty calibers were OLD Battle of Britain-style armament thinking. Let's stick enough of them on a plane then spray and pray. Once cannons were on Spits for example the .303s were used for aiming purposes only. I have personally been told by Spit pilots how the .303s bounced off the German planes- and no, not just later FW 190A-8s either.
The question shouldn't be why the abundance of thirty caliber guns and ammo existed early on it should be why did 4- .303s make way for 2- .50s on Spits? Why did MG 17s get replaced by MG 13s?
By late 1943 early 1944 there was no place for pre-war rifle caliber weapons on front line aircraft in daylight use. At night you could get away with light armament or none at all ala the B-29s stripped of weapons during the firebomb raids.
Lumaluftwaffe may have been joking but he is right on the mark- where you can up-gun do it. 20mms are better than .50s which are better than .30s.
Simply because a high volume of concentrated .30 caliber fire will bring an enemy plane doesn't mean it is optimum. In combat short bursts are usually all that is is possible. The ordnance striking the enemy needs to take its toll in damage with as few rounds as possible. It is not easy or usually possible to train you weapons on an enemy for many seconds at a time until your BBs finally take effect.
__________________
Last edited by Twitch : 04-05-2006 at 11:34 AM.
| |
| | | Thread Tools | Search this Thread | | | | | Display Modes |  Linear Mode | 
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off | | | All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:13 PM. | | |
