Ten best turning twisting climbing fighters - Aircraft of World War II

Jank · 06-17-2006, 03:18 AM

What are your top picks for this catagory?

loomaluftwaffe · 06-17-2006, 04:23 AM

109 was a good climber, but not so much a turning fighter

Gnomey · 06-17-2006, 06:14 AM

Turning - Spitfire, FW190D, some of the Russian fighters, Cr-42 and most of the other Italian ones.

Climb - Later mark Spitfires, 109,

red admiral · 06-17-2006, 07:34 AM

Turning, Macchi 200,202 which will outturn the Cr.42

lesofprimus · 06-17-2006, 07:45 AM

The latter Yaks were extreme turners....

Jabberwocky · 06-17-2006, 07:47 AM

Turning (Biplane): I-153

Turning (Monowing): Ki-43-I

Climbing: Spitfire LF Mk IX w/ 2000 hp Merlin 66

Twisting/ rolling: Fw-190A

Other honourable mentions got to the:

Bf-109F (climb, turn)
KI-84 Hayate (climb, turn)
La-7 (climb, turn)
A6M Zero (turn)
Yak-3 (turn)
MC205 (turn)
Re 2005 (turn)
F8F Bearcat (climb)
Spitfire XII (roll)
A7M Raiden (roll)

Dogwalker · 06-17-2006, 07:33 PM

It depends on the part of the war.
Earlier fighters were better turner, later were better climber.
For late 1941 - 1942 the C.202 was certanly a good climber (3'32" at 4000m, 5'55" at 6000m)
The Re.2001 was a better turner, but a worse climber (4'10" at 4000, 6'30" at 6000)
The C.205 was a good climber too in 1943 (5'30" at 6000 at the RA trials at Guidonia)

DogW

Soren · 06-17-2006, 10:22 PM

In the ETO the ultimate T&B fighters were the Spitfire, Bf-109 and Yak-3, these three were the best at T&B fighting in the ETO.

In the PTO, well its obvious isn't it, the Zero(The king of T&B fighters), no other could match it so there's no point mentioning any others...

My honorable mention would have to go to the Ta-152H-1, as it was quite the T&B fighter as-well.

In terms of overall maneuverability however, I'd pick the Fw-190D-9 any day! (The exception being if the party is at high alt)

lesofprimus · 06-17-2006, 10:33 PM

I have to agree with Soren 100%...

Henk · 06-17-2006, 10:48 PM

What Soren said 100%.

Jabberwocky · 06-18-2006, 08:18 AM

I disagree on the Zero point, because i'm a disagreeable guy

The Ki-43, Ki-27 and A5M were all considered more agile in horizontal and vertical manouvers than the Zero, both by Japanese pilots and their opposition.

In fact, strange as it sounds, of the first two generations of Japanese monoplane fighters, the Zero was probably the worst at purely horizontal manouvers, despite its reputation. It was larger, heavier, more powerful, better armed, more complex and more advanced with higher wingloading than any Japanese fighter before it.

It did have other significant advatages over the IJA fighters: speed, range, sustained climb and armament. Its like comparing a P-40 to a P-47 or a Hurricane to a Spitfire.

The Zero was still fantastically manouverable. I have an interview of Saburo Saki from the 1970s, commenting on its combination of very effective elevators and high power (for a Japanese fighter) making it an excellent climber and looper, even more so than it was a turner.

Allied opponents had a propensity to label almost all early Japanese fighters as a 'Zero' even when it wasn't a Navy fighter. Most of the Zeros claimed in the Far East and CBI were actually Oscars or Nates, and the same fantastic manouverability is also ascribed to them, but they were usually, and incorrectly, called 'Zekes' of 'Zeros'.

Soren · 06-18-2006, 03:16 PM

Hehe, and I agree with you Jabberwocky, the Ki-43, Ki-27 and A5M all turned tighter in the horizontal than the Zero, but only just. And the reason I mentioned the Zero is that it was clearly the numerically most important fighter the Japanese had for most of the war.

However when the allies really started going on the offensive the Oscar probably was the main encountered type.

FLYBOYJ · 06-18-2006, 04:56 PM

The Oscar had a butterfly flap that gave it phenomenal maneuverability, and like to Zero all under 300 mph. After that it's advantage was lost. The Zero/ Oscar identification mix up was identified and corrected by the summer of 42' but through out the war Japanese aircraft were always confused which each other because their silhouette was so similar.

loomaluftwaffe · 06-19-2006, 01:46 AM

very true, and the advantages and disadvantages and strategies were the same against the Ocar and the Zero
was the Ki-61 encountered often?

Twitch · 06-19-2006, 10:25 AM

Ki-27
MC 202
A5M2
Ki-43
A6M2
F8F
I-16
Me-109K-4
Spitfire II
Me 163B at 16,000 FPM wins climb race

06-17-2006, 03:18 AM	#1
Jank Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 679	Ten best turning twisting climbing fighters What are your top picks for this catagory?

06-17-2006, 04:23 AM	#2
loomaluftwaffe Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,848	109 was a good climber, but not so much a turning fighter __________________ "The German Luftwaffe always fought without any reserves. This is also the reason why we have pilots with extremely high numbers of victories." - General der Jagdflieger Adolf Galland"

06-17-2006, 06:14 AM	#3
Gnomey "World Traveller" Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Royal Deeside/St Andrews, Scotland, UK Posts: 16,490	Turning - Spitfire, FW190D, some of the Russian fighters, Cr-42 and most of the other Italian ones. Climb - Later mark Spitfires, 109, __________________ "Success is not Final, Failure is not Fatal, it is the Courage to Continue that Counts" Sir Winston Churchill "To him the People of the World Largely owe the Freedom and Liberties they Enjoy Today" Enscription on Hugh Dowding's (AOC Fighter Command 1936-40) statue in London WW2 Talk: A WW2 Discussion Forum My Photo Collections on Flickr

06-17-2006, 07:45 AM	#5
lesofprimus Minister of Whoopass Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi Posts: 18,447	The latter Yaks were extreme turners.... __________________ My IL2 Video Tribute to My Grandfather: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtzN5RuNNJk My 1/32nd Rendition of His Corsair: http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/2-p...3-a-20416.html

06-17-2006, 07:33 PM	#7
Dogwalker Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Manziana Field, near Rome Posts: 260	It depends on the part of the war. Earlier fighters were better turner, later were better climber. For late 1941 - 1942 the C.202 was certanly a good climber (3'32" at 4000m, 5'55" at 6000m) The Re.2001 was a better turner, but a worse climber (4'10" at 4000, 6'30" at 6000) The C.205 was a good climber too in 1943 (5'30" at 6000 at the RA trials at Guidonia) DogW __________________

06-17-2006, 07:34 AM	#4
red admiral Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 434	Turning, Macchi 200,202 which will outturn the Cr.42

06-17-2006, 07:47 AM	#6
Jabberwocky Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Japan Posts: 505	Turning (Biplane): I-153 Turning (Monowing): Ki-43-I Climbing: Spitfire LF Mk IX w/ 2000 hp Merlin 66 Twisting/ rolling: Fw-190A Other honourable mentions got to the: Bf-109F (climb, turn) KI-84 Hayate (climb, turn) La-7 (climb, turn) A6M Zero (turn) Yak-3 (turn) MC205 (turn) Re 2005 (turn) F8F Bearcat (climb) Spitfire XII (roll) A7M Raiden (roll)

06-17-2006, 10:22 PM	#8
Soren Banned Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,625	In the ETO the ultimate T&B fighters were the Spitfire, Bf-109 and Yak-3, these three were the best at T&B fighting in the ETO. In the PTO, well its obvious isn't it, the Zero(The king of T&B fighters), no other could match it so there's no point mentioning any others... My honorable mention would have to go to the Ta-152H-1, as it was quite the T&B fighter as-well. In terms of overall maneuverability however, I'd pick the Fw-190D-9 any day! (The exception being if the party is at high alt)

06-17-2006, 10:33 PM	#9
lesofprimus Minister of Whoopass Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi Posts: 18,447	I have to agree with Soren 100%... __________________ My IL2 Video Tribute to My Grandfather: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtzN5RuNNJk My 1/32nd Rendition of His Corsair: http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/2-p...3-a-20416.html

06-17-2006, 10:48 PM	#10
Henk Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: George - South Africa Posts: 2,786	What Soren said 100%. __________________ The ultimate revolution in aircraft designs during WW2

06-18-2006, 08:18 AM	#11
Jabberwocky Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Japan Posts: 505	I disagree on the Zero point, because i'm a disagreeable guy The Ki-43, Ki-27 and A5M were all considered more agile in horizontal and vertical manouvers than the Zero, both by Japanese pilots and their opposition. In fact, strange as it sounds, of the first two generations of Japanese monoplane fighters, the Zero was probably the worst at purely horizontal manouvers, despite its reputation. It was larger, heavier, more powerful, better armed, more complex and more advanced with higher wingloading than any Japanese fighter before it. It did have other significant advatages over the IJA fighters: speed, range, sustained climb and armament. Its like comparing a P-40 to a P-47 or a Hurricane to a Spitfire. The Zero was still fantastically manouverable. I have an interview of Saburo Saki from the 1970s, commenting on its combination of very effective elevators and high power (for a Japanese fighter) making it an excellent climber and looper, even more so than it was a turner. Allied opponents had a propensity to label almost all early Japanese fighters as a 'Zero' even when it wasn't a Navy fighter. Most of the Zeros claimed in the Far East and CBI were actually Oscars or Nates, and the same fantastic manouverability is also ascribed to them, but they were usually, and incorrectly, called 'Zekes' of 'Zeros'. Last edited by Jabberwocky; 06-18-2006 at 08:24 AM.

06-18-2006, 03:16 PM	#12
Soren Banned Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,625	Hehe, and I agree with you Jabberwocky, the Ki-43, Ki-27 and A5M all turned tighter in the horizontal than the Zero, but only just. And the reason I mentioned the Zero is that it was clearly the numerically most important fighter the Japanese had for most of the war. However when the allies really started going on the offensive the Oscar probably was the main encountered type.

06-18-2006, 04:56 PM	#13
FLYBOYJ IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 16,826	The Oscar had a butterfly flap that gave it phenomenal maneuverability, and like to Zero all under 300 mph. After that it's advantage was lost. The Zero/ Oscar identification mix up was identified and corrected by the summer of 42' but through out the war Japanese aircraft were always confused which each other because their silhouette was so similar. __________________ > I Support Doug Gillis <

06-19-2006, 01:46 AM	#14
loomaluftwaffe Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,848	very true, and the advantages and disadvantages and strategies were the same against the Ocar and the Zero was the Ki-61 encountered often? __________________ "The German Luftwaffe always fought without any reserves. This is also the reason why we have pilots with extremely high numbers of victories." - General der Jagdflieger Adolf Galland"

06-19-2006, 10:25 AM	#15
Twitch Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: City of the Angels California Posts: 809	Ki-27 MC 202 A5M2 Ki-43 A6M2 F8F I-16 Me-109K-4 Spitfire II Me 163B at 16,000 FPM wins climb race __________________

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