Triple 7 flying for USSR- Ever herard this?

[drgondog]

777 AVG Unit History

I found an article about an american Fighter Squadron formed along the lines of the AVG for China - but went to Russia.

It was fictitioiusly named 77FS for 7th AF when the real 77th was at March Field to provide cover while they moved P-40 and P-39s west..on the way to Siberia and then Moscow.

It was renamed 'triple 7' by the pilots and flew with VVS for entire war. It ended up with claims of 293 aircraft, which if true puts it near the top of any US Squadron during WWII. Not enough detail in the article to figure out what the actual TO&E was.

New one on me.

[seesul]

seems to be a fiction, more at http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/avi...ww2-12912.html (Tripple 7, unit of US fliers, fighting in Russia during WW2)

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by seesul

seems to be a fiction, more at http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/avi...ww2-12912.html (Tripple 7, unit of US fliers, fighting in Russia during WW2)

I agree with you.

I'm inclined to not believe the article simply because 1.) I see no reason for US pilots to convert from P-39s to IL2's and 2.) I don't find 'shuttle mission' transfer from 15th (or 8th AF) Mustangs to this unit as having any credibility... and 3.) I never heard of P-47s in USSR so hard to believe the logistics for either Mustang or Thunderbolt ops.

Further, The 15th and 8th did not have enough Mustangs to go around when the Shuttle Missions started, the ones left behind were damaged with no supply chain for spares or repair, and the Shuttle Missions ceased after Frantic VII finished September 22, 1944.

[Bigxiko]

i don't believe it also
it's a little hard to believe

[parsifal]

I never heard of P-47s in USSR so hard to believe the logistics for either Mustang or Thunderbolt ops.

According to my Lendlease Book, the Russians did receive P-47s. I know that they received the folowing in fact (This is not a complete list of all aircraft)

5707 P-39, 2908 A-20, 862 B-25, 2397 P-40, and 195 P-47 ( I am pretty sure they were "B"s).

The Rusians also received large numbers of Spitfires,and Hurricanes (almost the entire production run of Canadian Mk Xs) and also nearly all of the Canadian Valentine tanks. They received 12000 Shermans from the US alone, and about 4000 British Tanks...almost as many as the entire German output of turretted tanks for the entire war.....

P-39s were apparently well liked by the Russians because they were cheap. A P-39 cost the Russians $43000, whilst the price for a P-47 was 0ver $85000 delivered.

Flight conversion schools were set up in both Canada, and the central parts of the USSR, so there were contingents of the USAAF in Russia, but I very much doubt they ever flew combat missions as such. There were however, shuttle services from Bari to the USSR late in the war.

No P-51s ever served with the Russians.

To this day, the finacial costs of Lend Lease have not been paid by the Sovie5ts, or their Russian successors

[Marshall_Stack]

I have read that the Russians didn't like the P-47s but did use them for city defense (ones behind the lines) because of their high altitude capability.

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by parsifal

I never heard of P-47s in USSR so hard to believe the logistics for either Mustang or Thunderbolt ops.

According to my Lendlease Book, the Russians did receive P-47s. I know that they received the folowing in fact (This is not a complete list of all aircraft)

5707 P-39, 2908 A-20, 862 B-25, 2397 P-40, and 195 P-47 ( I am pretty sure they were "B"s).

The Rusians also received large numbers of Spitfires,and Hurricanes (almost the entire production run of Canadian Mk Xs) and also nearly all of the Canadian Valentine tanks. They received 12000 Shermans from the US alone, and about 4000 British Tanks...almost as many as the entire German output of turretted tanks for the entire war.....

P-39s were apparently well liked by the Russians because they were cheap. A P-39 cost the Russians $43000, whilst the price for a P-47 was 0ver $85000 delivered.

Flight conversion schools were set up in both Canada, and the central parts of the USSR, so there were contingents of the USAAF in Russia, but I very much doubt they ever flew combat missions as such. There were however, shuttle services from Bari to the USSR late in the war.

No P-51s ever served with the Russians.

To this day, the finacial costs of Lend Lease have not been paid by the Sovie5ts, or their Russian successors

That is interesting. If B's got there that implies late 1942 about the time Zemke was in USSR (not sure of any connection).. I suspect low altitude performance would have had as large a factor in rejecting the 47 in favor of either the 39 or 40 as 2x cost. Later the P-63 would have been 'good enough' in contrast to German strategic bombing platforms and zero long range escort capability.

Thanks for P-47 info

As for 51s, the 8th and 15th left approximately 25-30 servicable/repairable Mustangs in Russia during the Shuttle Missions so they could have seriously evaluated them.

[Erich]

your on the monies Bill, the Soviets preferred the low to mid-alt to support their ground campaign and back in the early 70's when I interviewed a LW pilot vet off the Ost front his indication to me was that the Soviet AF never desired to have a high alt. fighter for combat useage. The principle fighter for that purpose in regards was the marks of Spits the Soviets used for Recon work

[seesul]

Yes, when I was a kid I got a P-47 building kit 1:72 with Russian insignias. It were Razorbacks...if I remember ....

[kool kitty89]

P-47s to the Soviet Union

[JoeB]

Originally Posted by kool kitty89

"P-47s to the Soviet Union"

Correction to that link, the first 3 P-47's to the USSR were D-10-RE's, a photograph shows 42-75202 (a D-10) under test. The others allocated were 100 each D-22-RE's and D-27-RE (razorback and bubble canopy respectively) with 196 of the 203 allocated arriving as it says.

Addition to that link, the only combat service of P-47's with the Soviets I know of was with Fleet Air Arm units, as fighter bombers from late 1944. The biggest user was the Northern Fleet, with 63 P-47's on hand in two fighter regiments (2nd Guards and 255th) as of January 7, 1945.

The Soviets did receive 4 Allison engined Mustang I's via the British in 1942, in addition to restored USAAF ones left behind in the shuttle raids later on. The I's were evaluated by front line pilots but apparently not used in combat.

The '777' fictional sim game thing is good for a discussion of real Lend Lease every once in a while (at least the second thread just on this forum)

Source: "Red Stars" Vol. 4 by Geust and Petrov.

Joe