Token
Senior Airman
In the case of Baker (the event in this image) there was very little in the way of flash. No filtering was needed.
T!
Underwater Airplane Graveyard in Kwajelein Atoll
Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
In the case of Baker (the event in this image) there was very little in the way of flash. No filtering was needed.
T!
GregP
Major
I know Baker was detonated 90 feet underwater, but I hadn't even considered that the fireball would be smaller than a 90-foot radius ... I always assumed it was much bigger than that. Add to that the fact that the water between the detonation and the camera presented almost nothing to stop gamma radiation ... and that's why I figured it would be a big white blob.
Beats me how they figured beforehand out how to filter that explosion properly for fimling it, but the results were nothing if not spectacular.
I say spectacular, but would just as soon never see anything like it ever again from a contaimnation standpoint. If they could make a conventional explosion do the same thing, that would be something to see ... but I'm not a fan of dirty nuclear events within the Earth's atmosphere.
Beats me how they figured beforehand out how to filter that explosion properly for fimling it, but the results were nothing if not spectacular.
I say spectacular, but would just as soon never see anything like it ever again from a contaimnation standpoint. If they could make a conventional explosion do the same thing, that would be something to see ... but I'm not a fan of dirty nuclear events within the Earth's atmosphere.
bobbysocks
Chief Master Sergeant
yes it was....and you go across the ginalola bridgeda...lol
GregP
Major
I seem to remember that as Gina Loadabricks ... bobbysocks, but maybe that was from the Fintstones ... LOL ... or maybe is was the Jetsons dog Astro muttering the name ... it runs together ... ruhhh ohhhh ....
razor1uk
Staff Sergeant
Nice info guys, amazing pic too Greg - anychance of a link to the full size version? - is it me or are there 'smeer' shadows in the water spout - vessels in the spout - be they partial, whole or disintergrating..?
GregP
Major
Hi Elmas,
I mentioned a line from an old cartoon (Beannie and Cecil) and bobbysocks remembered it, too. The cartoons at the time were doing names closely matching the pretty leading ladies and yes, they were talking about Gina Lollobrigida. Beannie and Cecil had gone off to the No Bikin Atoll and yes, we "got it" as kids.
There were some good ones back then and they were funny, not chock full of idiot things like transformers and other similar crap you see today, if you watch them. Since I don't have kids, I mostly don't unless I happen to be visiting where they are showing. The modern ones aren't a patch on the old ones, entertainment-wise. I suppose you can brainwash kids into watching anything.
Hi razorluk,
It's been awhile, but I THINK I got it from here: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...pg/1280px-Operation_Crossroads_Baker_Edit.jpg
I do see one dark, sort of round piece of water in the spout, but I would have no way of knowing what vessels were moored where or exactly where the device was located at detonation. They tell us the general data, but I seriously doubt the detail data has been declassified to the point where we could tell exactly what was what.
I mentioned a line from an old cartoon (Beannie and Cecil) and bobbysocks remembered it, too. The cartoons at the time were doing names closely matching the pretty leading ladies and yes, they were talking about Gina Lollobrigida. Beannie and Cecil had gone off to the No Bikin Atoll and yes, we "got it" as kids.
There were some good ones back then and they were funny, not chock full of idiot things like transformers and other similar crap you see today, if you watch them. Since I don't have kids, I mostly don't unless I happen to be visiting where they are showing. The modern ones aren't a patch on the old ones, entertainment-wise. I suppose you can brainwash kids into watching anything.
Hi razorluk,
It's been awhile, but I THINK I got it from here: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...pg/1280px-Operation_Crossroads_Baker_Edit.jpg
I do see one dark, sort of round piece of water in the spout, but I would have no way of knowing what vessels were moored where or exactly where the device was located at detonation. They tell us the general data, but I seriously doubt the detail data has been declassified to the point where we could tell exactly what was what.
razor1uk
Staff Sergeant
Thanks Greg, sorry to be a bit off topic, after watching the 'Project Crossroads - Nuclear Test Film (1946)' youtube vid; at 2:22sec, I think the elongated diamond like smear on the left side of the spout in te pic might be the either an APA or a DD vessel - and if not, perhaps the flying Bridge Tower (that and upper surviving hull) of the Nagato as the ships remnants are thrown up and into a vertical angle..
So it could be the Nagato or a Kongo DD/APA - the tall masted bridge ship infront of the vertical Arkansas, ssemingly facing slightly across/abeam the direction of outwards pressure wave with its bow pointing to the left of the pic?
If so then the camera was at the 5 o clock position looking across the centre, but then the Arkansas should be hidden on the other side of the curve of the spout
...or is this a early 3D/muliple angle composite picture made from many differing positions 'all' from one side of the bay?
...or a photographic optical illusion due to the speed of light vs. pressure and induced movements - so the nuclear explosion effect is captured quicker than the effects upon the target ships being photographed are 'darker' and thus slower to be captured 'light' faster explosion?
Thinking that the clearly seen ship outside of the spout on its bow is the Arkansas, towards the right of the spout, was thinking in relation to the Baker map, the camera was at the 2 o clock position towards the centre of teh test.
So it could be the Nagato or a Kongo DD/APA - the tall masted bridge ship infront of the vertical Arkansas, ssemingly facing slightly across/abeam the direction of outwards pressure wave with its bow pointing to the left of the pic?
If so then the camera was at the 5 o clock position looking across the centre, but then the Arkansas should be hidden on the other side of the curve of the spout
...or is this a early 3D/muliple angle composite picture made from many differing positions 'all' from one side of the bay?
...or a photographic optical illusion due to the speed of light vs. pressure and induced movements - so the nuclear explosion effect is captured quicker than the effects upon the target ships being photographed are 'darker' and thus slower to be captured 'light' faster explosion?
Last edited:
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
The dark spot rising up with the column of water just behind the Battleship Nagano is the Battleship Arkansas (BB-33) during test Baker (25 July 1946).
bobbysocks
Chief Master Sergeant
elmas...yes i was. both the "no bikini atoll" and gina lollobrigida" were what we call puns or "a play on words"...that you may not understand. if not PM me and i will explain it to you.
greg i was actually surprised someone caught that reference....i started to buy the old cartoons on DVD for my grandchildren to appreciate.
ok so to bring things back on topic. that depth is more of a technical dive. your time is limited and probably needs to use different gasses. the lowest i have been is 110 feet. Truk Lagoon is on my bucket list..i hope to get there before everything turns to a pile of rust...most of those can be done without extra certifications...depths of 60 to 120 for most.
Sport diving on the wrecks of Truk Lagoon
greg i was actually surprised someone caught that reference....i started to buy the old cartoons on DVD for my grandchildren to appreciate.
ok so to bring things back on topic. that depth is more of a technical dive. your time is limited and probably needs to use different gasses. the lowest i have been is 110 feet. Truk Lagoon is on my bucket list..i hope to get there before everything turns to a pile of rust...most of those can be done without extra certifications...depths of 60 to 120 for most.
Sport diving on the wrecks of Truk Lagoon
GregP
Major
I've been to 120 feet for a short time. We stayed short to minimize decompression on one tank. That was off Cozumel, Mexico at Palancar Reef, actually Palancar Caves, some years back. The rest of my dives have been a bit more shallow ... just to get in the water and have a good time. Seems like the interesting stuff starts about decompression depth, doesn't it? Nothing much to see at 25 feet except silt and waves.
bobbysocks
Chief Master Sergeant
i do not dive in cold mirky water. although there are some ship wrecks in lake erie...which is 2 hours from me i would like to dive. plus in lake ontario, somewhere is jack woolam's P39 ( actually YP-59 A ) racer wreck. finding that may be my retirement hobby. but i usually go way south to dive...i did cozumel...nice wall dive there. if you want to see interesting stuff dive at night...lol. fun with a pucker factor...sometimes...lol
Last edited:
GregP
Major
Trite to say, but it IS small world, isn't it?
Actually Woolams' mounts WAS a P-39 ... modified, but a P-39, not a YP-59A. We are restoring a YP-59A at the Planes of Fame. It is WELL along and should fly in about 1 year or less. Well. let me rephrase that, we will be finished with it by then.
Actually Woolams' mounts WAS a P-39 ... modified, but a P-39, not a YP-59A. We are restoring a YP-59A at the Planes of Fame. It is WELL along and should fly in about 1 year or less. Well. let me rephrase that, we will be finished with it by then.
Donivanp
Captain
GregP
Major
You can have the missiles. I want the one on the bottom, and I don't mean the XB-70 ... just the Valkerie in front of it, even if she it a bit ... overdressed.
bobbysocks
Chief Master Sergeant
got to love a woman who knows how to "accessorize"..
got lazy on the YP 59....saw an accident report for niagra falls air port with his name flying the yp 59.....and didnt bother to check the date. i see he also he crashed an XP 63 there too....now i have to find the report for his 46 crash.
Accident-Report.com - USAAF/USAF Accidents for New York
got lazy on the YP 59....saw an accident report for niagra falls air port with his name flying the yp 59.....and didnt bother to check the date. i see he also he crashed an XP 63 there too....now i have to find the report for his 46 crash.
Accident-Report.com - USAAF/USAF Accidents for New York
Token
Senior Airman
Greg, my understanding is that the ship the weapon was suspended below was completely vaporized. However, the water/steam thrown out in front of the shock greatly muted the thermal and visible light flash. If you watch an unfiltered film of it you can see a brief flash before being obscured by the Wilson cloud.
And it was "only" 23.5 kt.
I never got to witness any open air nuclear tests myself, but I have seen some pretty big non-nuclear booms. The largest detonations I have seen firsthand measure in the hundreds of tons.
T!
GregP
Major
The largest "booms" I have seen live were conventional stuff dropped from B-52's. A stick of them makes a long explosive event and takes out a lot of territory. You don't want to be close to it but, seen one at a time, is impressive and STILL leaves a decent crater. The largest booms I have been close to were only shot from 5" howitzers.
Hundreds of tons must also be pretty impressive.
I can only imagine from clips what it must be like to see the detonation followed by the increasing Wilson cloud, followed by the shock wave or waves. I think I'd rather keep trying to imagine it rather than being close enough to experience the shock wave, even from within an underground bunker.
Hundreds of tons must also be pretty impressive.
I can only imagine from clips what it must be like to see the detonation followed by the increasing Wilson cloud, followed by the shock wave or waves. I think I'd rather keep trying to imagine it rather than being close enough to experience the shock wave, even from within an underground bunker.
Back to the original topic of Airplanes in Kwajelein Lagoon...
After 70 plus years in salt water are there airplanes down there or just random blobs of aluminum oxides / hydroxides at the bottom of the lagoon??? I thought that ocean water really corrodes the heck out of the alloys used for airplane construction.
After 70 plus years in salt water are there airplanes down there or just random blobs of aluminum oxides / hydroxides at the bottom of the lagoon??? I thought that ocean water really corrodes the heck out of the alloys used for airplane construction.
Last edited:
