Unlikely Adversaries !

[MikeGazdik]

Lets put two aircraft against each other, that historically fought side by side.

My first two pairings: P-51B/C/D Mustang VS Spitfire Mk IX to XIV.

and: Messerschmitt Bf109 F/G/K VS Focke Wulf Fw 190 A6/7/8 and 190D



Feel free to add others. 1 on 1 dogfight, begins at the altitude of your choice! I say, in my first pairing, the Spit Mk IX beats the Mustang. (ouch) And in the 2nd, the Bt109 prevails!

[Siegfried]

A P-51B is 36mph faster than an Spitfire IX at high altitudes and more like 45 mph at low altitudes and can always use this to dictate the engagment despite a slight turn radious disadvantage.
The Spitifre XIV has about the same speed above 20,000 to 25,000 but is slightly slower below.

Climb rate would generally go to the Spitifres bearing in mind that the P-51 climb is lower due to its much higher fuel capacity.

I would see the Mk XIV as a serious challenge to the P-51 but the Mk IX not in the same league. The Mk XIV lost manouverabillity but whether this was so serious its turn was disadvantaged compared to the P-51 I have no information.

[eagledad]

Hello

In early 1944, the 31st Fighter Group was converting from Spitfires to Mustangs. After some time for pilots to get familiar with the Mustang, an informal dogfight was conducted between the Spitfire Mk IX and the P-51B. The result- both pilots concluded that the Spitfire had won the fight. The IX could out climb, out accelerate and out maneuver the P-51. The Mustang could out dive and out run the Spit. Now, I would guess that the 2 pilots each were more familiar with the Spitfire than the Mustang, but at least in this case, the Spitfire won.

Eagledad

The above can be found in Flying American Combat Aircraft of WWII pg 315

[MikeGazdik]

I understand the Spit IX is slower. I'm not sure of the climb numbers, but I think they may be as big of an edge in favor of the Spit as the speed is for the Mustang. I love all of these aircraft so some are hard decisions. I still say the Spitfire would win more often than not.

[FLYBOYJ]

Spits and Mustangs did fight each other in combat...

[MikeGazdik]

I recall that and cannot think right now. An Israeli war?

[evangilder]

I'm guessing in one of the South American wars.

[Njaco]

ohhh, I don't think this thread is gonna last long.

And you may have had Bf109 against Fw190s later in the war when Yugo/Hungary/Bulgaria turned on the Axis and fought against them. Going off memory here, so I may be incorrect.

[FLYBOYJ]

I recall that and cannot think right now. An Israeli war?

Yes to a point. The IDF did have at least 2 Mustangs during the 48' war.

[PJay]

How about a late-model Mosquito nightfighter vs a Black Widow? At night of course.

[FLYBOYJ]

I stand corrected - The IDF had Mustangs and the EAF had Spits. I show most IDF claims against the EAF Spits were done in the Avia S199. The EAF claimed a P-51 in a MC205 in Jan, 1949. Spits and Mustangs "may" have met over the Middle East, as far as drawing blood on each other, seems it didn't happen.

BTW a IDF Mustang did shoot down an RAF Mosquito Nov 20, 1948

[Jenisch]

There was also the "Football War" between Honduras and El Salvador in 1969. Corsairs and P-51s fought each other. This was the last war were piston fighters performed air combat.

[FLYBOYJ]

There was also the "Football War" between Honduras and El Salvador in 1969. Corsairs and P-51s fought each other. This was the last war were piston fighters performed air combat.

Classic! I've mentioned Mike Alba on this forum a few times, flew P-38s and P-51s with the 55th FG. After the war he trained and help set up a number of Latin and South American Air Forces training commands. One of his students was Maj. Fernando Soto.

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/pos...tml#post246807 (Last Corsair Kills and F4U vs P-51's)

[Jenisch]

Interesting flyboy, thanks. I would enjoy see guncam footage of the aircraft in this conflict.

[andy2012]

What about A6M5 Zero V.Ki-61 Tony?