VVS Vs. RAF

[plan_D]

Only 1,000 of the 3,000 Hurricanes sent to Russia were re-equipped. Those were the Hurricane IIA (With Eight .303cal), the Hurricane IIB (Twelve .303cal) were left alone. Then there was the 1,300 Spitfire Vb and IX, which weren't touched.

The VVS certainly could not effectively defend against night strikes by RAF bombers. They also had nothing in an effective strategic bomber to strike back. However, I do give credit to the Soviet Union, they can adapt their technology. Maybe an increase in TB-3 production or Pe-8 production could have seen them with a strategic bomber force, however with the combat reports from the strategic bombing campaign against Finland I find it hard to believe that the VVS would be able to come up with the tactics to strike back in the same way that the RAF could strike.

The FAF were a tactically superior force to the VVS. With woefully inadequete equipment they managed to show the VVS up, especially when they stopped the VVS bomber offensive against their cities. And we all know how they did that, don't we?

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

You also have to look at the VVS ability to strike back with bombers. The Russians did not have much for Bombers and none really of quality except for the Pe-8. It is also interesting how they went after the war. The allies pretty much went with missles and the Russian kept building Heavy Bombers for quite some time. They also had a huge ammount of missles but there major strategic force was prop driven bombers. It is interesting how there strategy came about.

[the lancaster kicks ass]

well they're much more versatile than missiles.........

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I agree I am just wondering how they came upon there tactics, for instance the US and the British had heavy bombers also but they relied on cruise missles and such not the Russians did more of the opposite.

[Glider]

I suspect that their tactics were dictated by the technology that they had available. During the war the Russians aquired two B29's that crash landed in theeir territory. The crews were treated as POW and a vast amount of effort was put into copying them.
As a result they were automatically one step behind the USA, because the USA were moving onto the next generation.

[plan_D]

And the U.S captured Von Braun and already had the nuclear warhead. Nuke and rocket, big bang with no risk to crew.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Okay yeah I can see that. It makes sense.

[the lancaster kicks ass]

but you can't take recon photos or carry out a maritime patrol in a rocket........

[plan_D]

You do PR in a fighter and maritime patrol in an aircraft designed for the job like a P-3 Orion.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

And then you fire the rocket at the place you just PR'd or you send the satalite into space with the rocket and get whatever PR and better PR then from a plane!

[plan_D]

OR, you send up a plane with bombs that can conduct recainassance then blow it up while it's still there!

[delcyros]

I believe, the SU advanced in strategical bombers only because of the avaiability of the nuke in post war times. By the way they did, they never cut off the lines of the specialized GA planes (Il10-il-28-MiG-27-Su-25). In opposition to this, they concentrated more on the GA role for their fighters, too (Mig-15 dsch).
The avaiability of the I-153 is perhaps overstressed by the statistics. The number given must be much lower, but I am not sure in howfar. A number between 1.800 and 2.100 seems to be plausible in 1941. Production lines for the I-153 have been closed in 1940. The most numerous plane of the VVS/PVO is the I-16 in 1941. While I do conduct still some search, 7.000 planes have been produced (the last of them came out in 1942) and a number between 2.800 and 3.500 deployed seems to be plausible for mid 1941.
I also concluded my looks into early soviet Radar tech (thanks to documents provided by E. A. Avramovich/Tartu) and there is quite a lot of evidence that the soviets also mastered radar but never evolved to a very high degree (like Britain):
The soviet scientist P.K. Ostschenko theoritcly prooved the value of Radar for the PVO as early as jule 1934. In october 1934 Tuchatschevski asked S.W. Kirow for support in order to produce 5 experiamental radar stations (allowing a theoritcal detection range of 200 Km at 10.000m). Problems of the insufficient developed soviet electronical industriess delayed the first unit RUS-1 to 1939. Two of these stations have been involved in the Finno-Soviet war of 1940. Operational used brought some tactical problems to daylight: Rus-1 only allowed a detection of range and direction but not the altitude, speed, heading and number of planes. Exchange with german documents eventually lead to the Rus-2 stations, which entered service in late 1940. These units succesfully could detect up to 120 Km distance (similar to the early german Freya-stations) the altitude, approx. number
and heading of planes. At mid 1941 28 Rus-2 stations have been deployed to PVO-sites like Moscow, Leningrad, Charkov, Baku and Odessa. Other stations have been deployed at Wjasma and Rshev.In late 1941, with increasing Luftwaffe sorties against Moscow these stations coworked with the 7th and 6th PVO air regiment.
I wouldn´t be too sure in the unability of VVS/PVO nightime sorties, esspeccially in 1941, since a total of 4,9% of their interception sorties are nighttime (most PVO) at the end of ww2, in 1945 the average nighttime sortie was above 42% of all VVS/PVO sorties. Even without airborne radar.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Couldnt that be because of an increase in Luftwaffe night time sorties?

[delcyros]

Well possible. If the Luftwaffe shifts to the nightime, the PVO (more than the VVS) would adopt in their tactics to counter them.
Another interesting point is that the strategical bomber force of the SU, while equipped with obsolete TB-3 had some precision capabilities with underwing mounted bomb equipped I-16, which succeeded in destroying key bridges in the early phase of combat.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

The Russians though never really needed a Strategic bombing force in WW2, they needed to beat the Germans back off of there own turn and the British and the US were doing it for them.