Wasn't the P-51 the best escort fighter of the war?

[the lancaster kicks ass]

however combat history plays a part in deciding the best..........

[Jank]

Davicus hit the target here gents. Asked for the best escort of the war. Looks like the P-47 N filled the ticket.

[Erich]

nope, P-51 D and K friend. the original question is too broad.

should of been staed what theater of ops

[DAVIDICUS]

So Jank (the poster of his own question), clarifies the question he was asking and you are going to overrule him and say that he meant something other than what he just said he meant?

For what it's worth, I stand by my assertion that the P-47N was the best escort fighter to see combat service in WWII. Better than the P-51D and obviously better than ther P-51K which was inferior to the "D" model. (I understand that the "K" stood for Krap.)


Before everyone jumps on me, THAT WAS A JOKE, as in a feeble attempt at humor.

[Erich]

go interview some ETO vets of the 8th AF smart guy. The K variant was excellent. As I said this all is wrapped in what theater. First thing you cannot even compare the two on the ETO front anyway.

We can come up with scales as some posters like to do but until you can interview a vet first hand and get his views on flying both Jug and Mustang variants you will all have your own personal opinions.

v/r E

[wmaxt]

Originally Posted by Erich

go interview some ETO vets of the 8th AF smart guy. The K variant was excellent. As I said this all is wrapped in what theater. First thing you cannot even compare the two on the ETO front anyway.

We can come up with scales as some posters like to do but until you can interview a vet first hand and get his views on flying both Jug and Mustang variants you will all have your own personal opinions.

v/r E

I go with the late P-38s which were flying the longest fighter missions in the war. There is a large number that prefered their P-38s to the others. Preddy's logbook had these comments "P-38 wonderful flying ship, P-47 excelent flying ship...later... sure getting dissappointed in the Jug, P-51 is a good flying ship", the 474th group fought for and kept their P-38 through the war.

The P-51H and P-47M/N had potential but didn't get to show if they were or not.

[Erich]

ah but the 474th the only 9th AF fighter unit to keep the P-38 till war's end flew ground attack missions for most of the 1945 year. the 354th fg on the other hand started out with the P-51 and then changed over to the Jug which they hated and then back to the P-51 in December of 44 till wars end thus being the highest scoring fighter group in the ETO.

Again I point out this question could be really about operational theaters.

the only 8th AF to keep the P-47 which they did till wars end was the 56th when everyone else had traded in the P-38/P-47 for the P-51.

[Jank]

Thanks Davidicus and gents. Got my answer.

[Jank]

Really gents the question was wich plane of the entire war was trhe best escort fighter. The fastest, longest range, best of everything. I gather she was the P-47 N.

[DAVIDICUS]

wmaxt said, "The P-51H and P-47M/N had potential but didn't get to show if they were or not."

I beg to differ with respect to the P-47N. It proved it's potential well. RG_Lunatic was right about the P-47N's entering combat service in the PTO on Le Shima in May of 1945. By June 8th, their record was 79 Japanese air to air kills for one loss of their own. (Yes, I know that by this time most all the Japanese pilots were inexperienced.) In all, about 30,000 sorties were flown with P-47N's.

For an interesting account (brought to my attention by RG_Lunatic) of the 318th's P-47N's on Le Shima, read:

http://home.earthlink.net/~atdouble/...p.IeShima.html

Here are some points of interest. The P-47N was the first to drop napalm in combat, a P-47N was the first aircraft to destroy another, air to air, with a rocket and the very last hostile aircraft shot down in WWII fell to two P-47N's when they splashed two "renegades" on the night of August 14th, after the cease fire.

[KraziKanuK]

Originally Posted by DAVIDICUS

Here are some points of interest. The P-47N was the first to drop napalm in combat, a P-47N was the first aircraft to destroy another, air to air, with a rocket and the very last hostile aircraft shot down in WWII fell to two P-47N's when they splashed two "renegades" on the night of August 14th, after the cease fire.

Was not napalm used in Europe?

The Germans had been using a2a rockets since 43 to shoot down e/as. The Russians before that iirc.

Asking for clarification.

[evangilder]

I have seen video of a P-47 dropping napalm, but it wasn't an N model. I am sure that the P-47N was NOT the first to drop napalm in combat. They used napalm on several Pacific islands before the N ever entered service. I am with KK on the rockets.

[DAVIDICUS]

KraziKanuk: It was not a rocket designed for air to air but an air to ground rocket. I should have been clearer. See the link I posted.

Evanglider: The 318th was the first to drop napalm. Perhaps they were using "D" models before they received "N" models for that. My mistake again.

Originally Posted by DAVIDICUS

Roving Guns:

Please, call me Lunatic - Roving Guns is my FA squadron

Originally Posted by DAVIDICUS

I don't see the conflict in what I wrote. (Was I self contradictory?) The information I read says that the P-47N entered service in the PTO in September of 1944 and thus:

"began service in the PTO in September of 1944."

"The first P-47N-1-RE appeared in September of 1944, and 24 were delivered by year's end."

You have indicated that they didn't actually see service until May of 1945. I didn't know this. Where does this information come from? At any rate, it did definitely see combat, shot down a lot of Jap planes and even made a number of pilots aces.

The first production unit was delivered in Sept. 1944, and 24 were indeed delvivered by years end. But that is not the same thing as seeing service. The first to see service in the PTO were with the 318th FG in May 1945. I don't know when the first was delivered to the 456 FG in the ETO, but I believe it was in late Jan/Feb. of 1945 (very hard to tell, but this is when the M's stopped flying anti-V1 missions), though a few might have been deployed earlier.

IIRC 106 Japanese planes were shot down in aerial combat by the 301 Fighter Wing (318, 414, and 507 FG's), for one combat loss - you can check at one of the sites listed in my other post.

Please see my post at:

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/vie...?p=61632#61632

Originally Posted by DAVIDICUS

My information on the P-38J came from the source I cited. At any rate, what was the roll rate of the P-38J? I thought it was about 80 degrees/second. The P-47D could do 85 and the P-47N did better than 100. Do you have reliable figures for these three aircraft that say different?

The following is from Lockheed:

Originally Posted by DAVIDICUS

That chart you posted lists the P-47D-10. Out of curiosity, do you have any climb figures for P-47D's with paddle blades?

Unfortunately, thus far I've not been able to find figures for the paddle prop climb. If you find them, please send them to me!

=S=

Lunatic

[DAVIDICUS]

The chart indicates a roll rate of less than 100 degrees a second for the P-38 with boosted ailerons. I believe the P-47N exceeded 100 degrees per second.

From: http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Sev...Republic8.html

The XP-47N took to the air for the first time on July 22, 1944. Test comparisons were made with a P-47D-30-RE throughout the early portion of the evaluation period. Much to everyone’s surprise, the XP-47N, with its greater wingspan and higher weight actually proved to have better roll performance than the D model. At 250 mph TAS, the N attained a maximum roll rate just over 100 degrees/second. The P-47D-30-RE could manage but 85 degrees/second at the same speed. At higher speeds, the N widened the gap further.

**********

I've always been curious how much of an improvement the paddle blade props were for the P-47. Maybe someone else will know.