Weird World War 2 Facts

wmaxt · 07-05-2005, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

I think where the confusion lies here is what type of ceiling are we talking about. "Service Ceiling" is the maximum density altitude where the best rate-of climb airspeed will produce a 100 feet-per-minute climb at maximum weight while in a clean configuration with maximum continuous power. Now as you can see this definition is given in "Density Altitude" which changes with temperature and air pressure. I have found that many publications imply that this is the maximum altitude the aircraft could fly. NOT TRUE. If you notice the key is the ability of the aircraft to still produce 100' per minute in a climb. Now "Absolute Ceiling" is the height that an aircraft horizontal in flight can maintain and ususally this speed is just above the aircraft's stall speed providing the engine is still producing thrust. There's a big difference between the two.

Exactly right! Good explanation Flyboy.

wmaxt

FLYBOYJ · 07-05-2005, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wmaxt

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

I think where the confusion lies here is what type of ceiling are we talking about. "Service Ceiling" is the maximum density altitude where the best rate-of climb airspeed will produce a 100 feet-per-minute climb at maximum weight while in a clean configuration with maximum continuous power. Now as you can see this definition is given in "Density Altitude" which changes with temperature and air pressure. I have found that many publications imply that this is the maximum altitude the aircraft could fly. NOT TRUE. If you notice the key is the ability of the aircraft to still produce 100' per minute in a climb. Now "Absolute Ceiling" is the height that an aircraft horizontal in flight can maintain and ususally this speed is just above the aircraft's stall speed providing the engine is still producing thrust. There's a big difference between the two.

Exactly right! Good explanation Flyboy.

wmaxt

Thanks wmaxt!

Smokey · 07-05-2005, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plan_D

It's the same with the EE Lightning, it's always reported as having an altitude of 60,000 feet but that's only because it's altimeter only goes up to 60,000!

The altimeter only goes up to 60,000 ft? Is that because the designers thought the fuel would run out before it reached 60,000 ft?

plan_D · 07-05-2005, 06:03 PM

It can reach 60,000 feet in just over one minute. Are you saying the EE Lightning can only fly for 2 minutes?

FLYBOYJ · 07-05-2005, 07:36 PM

An aneroid altimeter looses it effectivness at those altitudes as well.

Smokey · 07-06-2005, 05:54 AM

Well, I heard the Lightning was a very thirsty bird

I also heard it could supercruise back in the 50s.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 07-06-2005, 07:33 AM

I never said I was not against Lanc, I am just going by the figures but as he stated in most cases an aircraft flies higher than what it says. It is completly possible what Lanc is saying.

cheddar cheese · 07-06-2005, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

I think where the confusion lies here is what type of ceiling are we talking about. "Service Ceiling" is the maximum density altitude where the best rate-of climb airspeed will produce a 100 feet-per-minute climb at maximum weight while in a clean configuration with maximum continuous power. Now as you can see this definition is given in "Density Altitude" which changes with temperature and air pressure. I have found that many publications imply that this is the maximum altitude the aircraft could fly. NOT TRUE. If you notice the key is the ability of the aircraft to still produce 100' per minute in a climb. Now "Absolute Ceiling" is the height that an aircraft horizontal in flight can maintain and ususally this speed is just above the aircraft's stall speed providing the engine is still producing thrust. There's a big difference between the two.

Viable explanation

The figures I was basing my point of view on were service ceiling. This explains it

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 07-06-2005, 03:00 PM

So then what would be the Absolute Cieleings?

plan_D · 07-06-2005, 03:42 PM

The EE Lightning was thirsty, it only achieved a combat radius of 450 miles. It wasn't designed to go any further, it was an interceptor. I've never heard of the Lightning achieving super-cruise. It's cruise speed was Mach 0.87 - if I remember correctly.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 07-06-2005, 04:05 PM

Could she really achieve 60,000ft in just over a minute. That seems a bit high.

cheddar cheese · 07-06-2005, 04:07 PM

I believe it.

plan_D · 07-06-2005, 04:15 PM

Initial climb rate of 50,000 feet per minute - it could do another 10,000 feet in a few seconds at full re-heat.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 07-06-2005, 04:17 PM

Actually you are right I just looked it up myself and it says 50,000ft per min initial climb rate.

FLYBOYJ · 07-06-2005, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

So then what would be the Absolute Cieleings?

Many aircraft manufacturers won'tpost that. WHY? Because folks will try to fly it! Case in point - Very recently two commuter pilots took a Bombardier RJ up to it's max service ceiling. Within 5 minutes at 42,000 the aircraft experienced a double flame out. These guys crashed and died. I think it's in the NTSB blotter.

This is your brain. This is your brain at max service ceiling