What aircraft (any side) would you develope further

[The Basket]

IMHO the only aircraft that could have really done something and built in the thousands and had an effect on the war was the He 100.

That was certainly a very good aircraft that went nowhere.

The rear engine thing is interesting. During WW1 RFC had some pushers called the DH2 fighters. If the aircraft crash landed, the engine could rip free and smash the pilot...maybe. But it also would be a nice lump between a bullet and the pilot.

A crash landing which caused the engine in a P39 to come loose is going to be a nasty crash landing in anything. I would consider the location of the engine unimportant as any violent crash landing is going to hurt in any plane.

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

How about fitting a B-17 with jet engines?

[Parmigiano]

To Glider
"..Italy
Machi 202 - Why didn't they give it a couple of cannon? At a critical time of the airwar in the Med, this fairly small change could have made a big difference."

The MC 202 was actually developed in the way you foresee: the MC205V was exactly a MC202 with 2 x MG151 and the DB605 engine. Wing cannon was tested on a couple of 202 (unofficially MC202C) before production switched to MC205.

Already covered in other threads, but the 'series 5' - Fiat G55, Macchi 205N (that was a different design from 205V) , Reggiane 2005 - could have been interesting if developed after early 1943 (i.e. with the updated DB605 with MW50 etc.)

[ccheese]

Originally Posted by Soundbreaker Welch?

How about fitting a B-17 with jet engines?

I recall seeing some pictures of a B-17 with an engine installed in the
nose of the fuselage, purely for testing. The object was to get it into the
air, then start the 'fifth' engine. I'll see if I can find the pic's. I have no
idea of the outcome.

Charles

[Glider]

Originally Posted by Parmigiano

To Glider
"..Italy
Machi 202 - Why didn't they give it a couple of cannon? At a critical time of the airwar in the Med, this fairly small change could have made a big difference."

The MC 202 was actually developed in the way you foresee: the MC205V was exactly a MC202 with 2 x MG151 and the DB605 engine. Wing cannon was tested on a couple of 202 (unofficially MC202C) before production switched to MC205.

Already covered in other threads, but the 'series 5' - Fiat G55, Macchi 205N (that was a different design from 205V) , Reggiane 2005 - could have been interesting if developed after early 1943 (i.e. with the updated DB605 with MW50 etc.)

Thanks for the info. I was aware of the development of the '5' series but the point I was trying to make is that they were too late. No one would deny that the MC202 was an excellent little fighter but why didn't they give the 202 the guns from the start. Almost every other nation on earth gave their fighters 20mm guns by that stage and it could have made a huge difference.

[Snautzer]

How about
I present my MesserStang

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

Is that true? The Germans were going to convert their 109 into a P-51 Mustang crossbreed?

[kool kitty89]

Well here's my sourse wikipedia:
"In 1940, the British Direct Purchase Commission in the US was looking for combat aircraft; they ordered 675 of the export version Bell Model 14 as the "Caribou" on the strength of the company's representations on 13 April 1940. The performance of the Bell P-39 prototype and 13 test aircraft which were able to achieve a speed of 390 mph (630 km/h) at altitude was due to the installation of turbo-supercharging. The British armament was 0.50-inch machine guns in the fuselage, and four 0.30-inch machine guns in the wings, the 37 mm gun was replaced by a 20 mm Hispano Suiza." so I guess I missread, they are just refering to the prototype's turbo; still I think leaving the turbo in would have been a much smarter decesion, as they could have simply omitted it or traded it for a supercharger for export.

I think Heinkel's 280 would have been quite good, had the German officials taken a keener intrest and more intrest in the 178 testbed or jets in general, but they were unswayed intill the 280-190 mock dogfight. (I also think the HeS-8 and 30 shouldn't have been dropped as they were far lighter and more compact than the 003 or 004 and seemed to be less problematic than the 003 these engines would have also probably given the Me 262 better performance, espesialy roll due to the decreased length.
The US's L113 with its twin L-1000 axial flow jets and was in development in late 1939 could have been somthing had the USAAF taken intrest, but like the Germans it came at a time when reliable, conservative designs were preferable and it was hard enough to push designs like the P-38.

Symmilar reasons doomed the P-59 as a usable fighter as the government limeted Bell's use of wind tunnels, as well as settin an 8 month deadline for the first prototype, and even when they did manage to gain acess it was only to low-speed tunnels. Effectively elimonating Bell's abillity to streamline the aircraft and better configure engine placement. As it was the P-59B had 2 uprated 2000 lb. st. J31-GE-5 turbojets(giving the craft a thrust to weight ratio of .36) and a maximum range of 950mi, as well as a decent armament (actualy symilar to the airacobra's), but the aerodunamic peoblems and the huge 45ft wings limited the plane to just 413mph. If properly developed from the start the airacomet probably could have broken 500mph and maby outperformed the F3 meteor. It did set a new unofficial altitude record of 14,512 m (47,600 ft) thanks to its otherwise hindering oversized wings, positively the high altitude allowed the engeneers to duagnose some engine problems that would have otherwise gone uncorected intill the XP-80 was tested.
I'n not sure why bell didn't base their design around the airacobra, all you'd really have to do is alter the wings and tail to accomadate the engines and exaust, pluss it already had the necessary tricycle undercarage, there could be increased nose-mointed weapons, and the engine cavity could be filled with a fuel tank.Pluss the engines could have been mounted above the wing, retaining the low wings. Though with the mid-mounted bubble cockpit, wing-mounted engines, and pointed nose it might look a tad like a scaled-down Me 262... creepy!

Also as for crash landing dangers: from wikipedia:
" Its unusual engine location, and the driveshaft, caused some pilot concern at first, but experience showed this was no more of a hazard in a crash landing than with an engine located forward of the cockpit, while there were no problems with propshaft failure."

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Soundbreaker Welch?

Is that true? The Germans were going to convert their 109 into a P-51 Mustang crossbreed?

No the Bf 109G-14 was the last varient of the G and it was a normal Bf 109. The varient also included the Bf 109G-14/AS. There were several thousand G-14s built.

His Messerstang is an artist rendering.

[Snautzer]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

No the Bf 109G-14 was the last varient of the G and it was a normal Bf 109. The varient also included the Bf 109G-14/AS. There were several thousand G-14s built.

His Messerstang is an artist rendering.

I confess, i made that one.

But its not that strange considering the DB engine in a Spitfire wich was realley done.
How about fixing the view in the 109?

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Interesting none the less, but I still dont like it. To me it takes away from the menacing look of the Bf 109 that I like.

[Snautzer]

Originally Posted by Soundbreaker Welch?

How about fitting a B-17 with jet engines?

Only jet engines would be too difficult ( in rl) but this should be feasible

B-17 with Rolls-Royce Derwent I turbojets with 8.83 kN (900 kgp / 2,000 lbf) thrust each.

[Snautzer]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Interesting none the less, but I still dont like it. To me it takes away from the menacing look of the Bf 109 that I like.

I agree. this is a bit better i think

Malcolm nine

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Nope not for me. I like the Bf 109 the way it is.

[Konigstiger205]

I would modify my country's I.A.R. 81 and replace the 7.92 mm FN machine guns with 13 mm MG 131 from the Bf109 and perhaps mount a 30 mm Mk108 cannon in the nose but for that probably would have to take out the 20 mm MG 151/20 from the wings...