What does your 1941-1942 carrier plane force look like?

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by delcyros

And I would stick with the Zeke, since it dominated over the F4F for almost a year, while the F4F eventually reached maturity in deployment with better tactics in late 42 (when our timeframe closes).

I see your point about the time frame. It wasn't until Midway when the F4F started dominating the Zero. And yes, better training and tactics made much of the difference

Some credit has to be given to the machine. For many years we heard about the superior performance of the Zero. That superiority was only evident at speeds below 300 mph. Although we know it had a slightly faster top speed when compared to the F4F, it was at those speeds where the Zero's performance (maneuverability) began to diminish and where the F4F excelled.

At the end of the day the F4F established a kill ratio of 6.9 to 1: 178 lost, for 905 'confirmed' kills. Split that in half for argument sake and that's still impressive for an aircraft that was supposedly outclassed in all categories by its main opponent.

[delcyros]

Yes it is impressive, I don´t want to underrate the Wildcat.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I like FBJ's list and dont think I can think of anything better to pic, so I will just his also, if that is okay with you FBJ.

F4F-3 fighter
Dive Bomber - SBD
Torpedo/ Strike - TBM
ASW/ Observation - Kingfisher

[rebel8303]

I think that the Japanese planes were quite good but the japanese pilots did not have proper training

[Magister]

As has already been pointed out, tactics were what gave Wildcat pilots an edge over their Zero flown opponents. If proper counter tactics had been employed by Zeke pilots, they would have waxed the Wildcats.

I say the Zero (exclusive of tactics employed) was the best carrier fighter of the time.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by Magister

As has already been pointed out, tactics were what gave Wildcat pilots an edge over their Zero flown opponents. If proper counter tactics had been employed by Zeke pilots, they would have waxed the Wildcats.

The only things the Japanese could of done was develop the same "energy management" tactics used by the USN and incorporated better teamwork. There's no real "counter tactics" for fighting in the vertical, coordinating attack and overall teamwork. At that point its the machine, teamwork and the skill of the pilot.

Originally Posted by Magister

I say the Zero (exclusive of tactics employed) was the best carrier fighter of the time.

As long as they kept their fight under 300 mph....

If you look at what the Zero actually did, it was highly over-rated....

[syscom3]

Originally Posted by rebel8303

I think that the Japanese planes were quite good but the japanese pilots did not have proper training

At the start of the war, the IJN airmen were among the best trained around. Many had combat experience in China, and the IJN was known to conduct training along "wartime conditions".

Unfortunatly for Japan, the system that produced and trained them couldnt expand fast enough to provide replacements and expand the pool. It also was quite rigid when it came to developing new tactics.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by syscom3

It also was quite rigid when it came to developing new tactics.

Very Very true! The IJN and JAAF held on to an outdated dogfighting doctrine...

[102first_hussars]

At the start of the war, the IJN airmen were among the best trained around. Many had combat experience in China, and the IJN was known to conduct training along "wartime conditions".

Very true, alot of their dogfighting experience also came from the Russo-Japanese war as well.

[Jank]

"As long as they kept their fight under 300 mph.... "

Both the Zero and Widcat were relatively slow so that would,'t be too difficult.

Also, I thougt that the Japanes pilots didn't operate together as a team very well as opposed to the Americans.

[FLYBOYJ]

As long as they kept their fight under 300 mph.... "

Both the Zero and Wildcat were relatively slow so that would,'t be too difficult.[/quote]
No - the Wildcat had a top speed of about 325 mph. When you're fighting in the vertical and unloading the airplane "over the top" the aircraft will dive a lot quicker. It's here where the Zero's limitations are exploited. All of its control surfaces "loaded up" and became like concrete.

Originally Posted by Jank

Also, I thougt that the Japanes pilots didn't operate together as a team very well as opposed to the Americans.

Although they fought bravely, they sometimes did things haphazardly....

[plan_D]

They didn't use cloud cover effectively. They didn't use much air-ground communication on blind landings. And they concentrated on runways, rather than lines of communication and stores when attacking airfields. There's some more flaws with the IJN and IJAAF aerial tactics, and practices.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by plan_D

They didn't use cloud cover effectively. They didn't use much air-ground communication on blind landings. And they concentrated on runways, rather than lines of communication and stores when attacking airfields. There's some more flaws with the IJN and IJAAF aerial tactics, and practices.

Yep and many of them flew with no parachutes....

[syscom3]

I cant remember what aviation historian it was that said the "Japanese fighter pilots behaved more like 16th century samurai than 20th century proffesionals". I know some German military attache's were continually telling the Japanese officers to change their tactics to reflect on what was proven in Europe in 1940 and 1941. Fortunalty for the allies, that advice was unheeded.

[FLYBOYJ]

Very True