What If...?

[mosquitoman]

Coastal Command would have had every strike wing available over the Graf Zeppelin

[the lancaster kicks ass]

ok so she tries to break out into the atlantic, she figures she's got her own air cover so they brave it an try to dash through the English channel, asuuming they're not hit by a mine or two, or three, we're almost cirtain to spot her, we know she's an important target an so send every beaufort and beaufighter we have out to get her, hell we could even send a spitfire escort, the spitfires and some beaufighters will tangle with the -109Ts and any other fighter opposition (no, the stukas would not be scrambled), in the meantime the beauforts are sticking a few torps into the sides of the Graf, if she lives through the repeated attacks and mines, we have a couple of battleships and a carrier waiting for her in the atlantic...............

[mosquitoman]

Sounds a good enough plan for me, imagine MkXVIII Mossies putting holes in it with that 6 pounder

[the lancaster kicks ass]

i was thinking about adding them to the mix but i wasn't sure when the Graf would have entered service...........

[mosquitoman]

The problem was the aircraft, Goering wouldn't release them from his control (I think)

[the lancaster kicks ass]

also the Graf could carry a huge number of aircraft as she also carryied allot of heavier armourment, they tried to fit her with large-ish guns so it wouldn't need cruiser escort i think...........

[cheddar cheese]

The Graf in with Bismarck and Tirpitz escort...theres a though

[mosquitoman]

Scharnhorst, Gneisenau and Prinz Eugen aswell, ouch

[the lancaster kicks ass]

the bismark went down in '41, no chance, dunno about the others.........

[ju-390]

The Graf Zeppelin could carry 40 aircraft.

[toffigd]

The Graf Zeppelin was put on water on 8 December 1938, in the same year Germans started building second carrier, a twin to Graf Z. - the Peter Strasser (don't know what happened with it later, probably never built more than 10% of it). Graf Zeppelin in 1940 was almost ready (90%)! The main problems were catapults and aerofinishers. The problem was solved, but decision was to stop building the ship.
42 planes were to base at Graf Z. - 2 squadrons of Bf 109T and one of Fi 167 (later Ju 87C). The artillery was really heavy as for an aircraft carrier. 16x150mm (they were put into project by mistake - original project included only 8 guns, but someone have mistaken, putting 8 guns on one board, which automatically doubled its number), 12x105mm and noumerous 37mm & 20mm.
In 1942 when workers came back on board of Graf Z., the Kriegsmarine decided to rebuilt a bulk of heavy cruiser Seydlitz in Konigsberg. It was supposed to be equipped with 18 planes. Never finished of course.

[the lancaster kicks ass]

british carriers would have made mince meat of her, we had dedicated torpedo bombers that were far more suited to carrier warfare than -87Cs, and i'm expecting CC was gonna say that the graf's armourment would help it, it really wouldn't, it took up space, was heavy, and british or even american battleships far out gunned it..........

[toffigd]

ekhm, comparing aircraft carrier with battleships?

[BombTaxi]

Sure we had dedicated torpedo bombers...but 109s would have slaughtered Swordfishes (or most other FAA 'fighters' of the era)! The only reason the Stringbag stayed in service for so long was because it operated in environments where fighter threat was low.

As for British BBs...they wouldnt have got close enough to open fire. While roaming the North Sea and Atlantic looking for this carrier, they would be under constant threat from u-boats, long-range aircraft and GZs own Stukas. Looking at the record of British BBs vs aircraft and subs in the early war (when GZ would most likely have entered service), we get: one BB torpedoed at anchor, three sunk by air attack. None of the attacking forces suffered significantly. I think we can see that the odds would be somewhat long of our ships making it to the engaement intact.

As a footnote, check out the the record of the RN's surface-to-surface gunnery against the Bismarck. If it took that many major units that long to sink one crippled BB, I hate to think how long they would have taken to finish a carrier group. They'd have been sunk before they were halfway done.

[mosquitoman]

Well, I think Seafires and Sea Hurricanes would have stood up well to 109s and Stukas, enough aircraft around and the U-boats wouldn't get a chance. This gives the Battleships and Cruisers enough time to get in close and finish off the GZ.