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Old 11-20-2005, 04:00 PM   #451
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That's not what my history teacher told me.. he said the jet did fly during WWII, but never entered combat. Maybe I should get an award for "most misinformed".. or just "most clueless"
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Old 11-20-2005, 04:10 PM   #452
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I do not mean to be abbrasive here to you, and I do not wish to offend you here but the Me-262 saw combat in WW2. Your History Teacher is full of **** and you can tell him that I said that. I will give you my address if you like so he can write me and I can tell him personally.

The Me-262 shot down numerous B-17's, B-24's and P-51D's. Not only did the Me-262 see combat, the He-162 also saw combat, and so did the Ar-232 jet bomber. The Me-163 even though it was not a jet but rather a rocket plane also saw combat and shot down allied aircraft. The British Meteor also saw combat even though it did not see air to air. It attacked some German convoys I believe over Belgium.

The Me-262 shot down about 150 aircraft in WW2. On March 18, 1945 alone Me-262's shot down 12 bombers and 1 fighter.
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fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"

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Old 11-20-2005, 05:01 PM   #453
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Impressive!
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Old 11-20-2005, 05:11 PM   #454
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Well I hope you can learn some real stuff here not the propaganda stuff that floats around on the internet and history teachers as i your case.
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Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes:

fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"

"wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2"

"ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life"
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Old 11-21-2005, 10:58 AM   #455
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before you go any further on the site is there anything that we can prove your history teacher wrong on? he better not've insulted the lancaster or i'd personally come over there and bitch slap into the middle of next week
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Old 11-21-2005, 11:06 AM   #456
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what if??long lance torpedos..HMS NELSON

is the story of churchill being in the Nelson when a type 2 tried to torpedo it accurate?what if the germ had good torpedos(like the long lance)I know the lance was 24 inch dia.not 21 inch like germ torp.but couldn't they modify their subs for this?what effect overall for the period before spring 43 when u-boats crushed by allied ASW????
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Old 11-21-2005, 02:43 PM   #457
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As a history teacher, tell him or her the same thing. Gawd, it just gets my panties in a wad when I hear of teachers doing this crap! I may not know every little aspect of WWII but I can at least teach the basics correctly and truthfully and if I have a doubt I research.

GRRRRRR

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet
I do not mean to be abbrasive here to you, and I do not wish to offend you here but the Me-262 saw combat in WW2. Your History Teacher is full of sh*t and you can tell him that I said that. I will give you my address if you like so he can write me and I can tell him personally.
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Old 11-21-2005, 03:14 PM   #458
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That borders on the criminal, IMO. To teach such misinformation is a disserrvice to history.
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Old 11-22-2005, 11:07 AM   #459
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i remember getting into a bit of a debate with my history teacher infront of the class over which was better, the Pz. kpwf IV or the T-34-85, the debate stoped when the head of year walked in, the teacher told him the disscussion and he says "the T-34? that was a russian tank wasn't it? that's as much as i know on the subject", me and CC couldn't help but correct our teacher when he was trying to teach us about the battle of britain .........
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Old 11-22-2005, 11:11 AM   #460
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I dont remembere that at all...
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Old 11-22-2005, 11:15 AM   #461
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SUperflanker37
That's not what my history teacher told me.. he said the jet did fly during WWII, but never entered combat. Maybe I should get an award for "most misinformed".. or just "most clueless"
Print this out for your history teacher....

DESCRIPTION:
The historic Me 262 Schwalbe (Swallow) was the first jet-powered aircraft ever to see combat. The project began in 1938 when Messerschmitt was called upon to design a new fighter powered by two gas turbine engines being developed by B.M.W. The configuration eventually chosen featured a sleek streamlined fuselage with the two podded engines carried beneath a low-mounted wing.
Although the airframe was ready to fly by 1941, the early B.M.W. turbojet engines were well behind schedule due to prolonged development delays. German designers instead chose to make the first flights using a single piston engine located in the nose. These early flights confirmed the good handling characteristics of the Me 262 and allowed other systems to be tested until the jet engines were finally ready a year later. Being conservative, the designers decided to keep the piston engine in the nose as a backup. Luckily, this move paid off. On its first jet-powered flight, the Me 262 had barely become airborne using the combined power of all three engines when both jets failed. The auxiliary piston engine provided just enough power to make a safe landing, thereby saving the plane for future testing.

It is a common misconception that the Me 262 might have won the war if Adolf Hitler had not delayed the project by insisting the aircraft be used as a bomber. Though this demand did play a role, as did the indifference of key Luftwaffe leaders, it was continuing problems developing the jet engines that provided the greatest impediment to the program. However, Junkers had finally developed engines of sufficient power and reliability by late 1943 to make the new fighter feasible.

The Luftwaffe began committing the remarkable Me 262A-1a to combat in mid-1944 when air defense squadrons were pitted against the columns of heavy bombers making daily raids on German cities and military targets. Later models included the Me 262A-2a Sturmvogel (Stormbird) bomber and the Me 262B two-seat night fighter carrying an early form of airborne radar.

Despite being well-armed with 30-mm cannons and air-to-air rockets, the Me 262 was simply too little too late to turn the tide of war in Germany's favor. Maintaining production was difficult due to Allied attacks on industrial centers, and many aircraft were destroyed on the ground or shot down because of poor pilot training. The few that did see action may have outclassed their Allied opponents in terms of speed, but several were lost to the superior numbers and better maneuverability of enemy piston-powered fighters.

A total of about 1,430 examples of the Me 262 were ultimately built, though only about 300 ever saw combat. Many of the survivors were captured by the victorious Allies and used to help jumpstart the blossoming jet age.

Data below for Me 262A-1a
Last modified 14 November 2004



HISTORY:
First Flight 18 April 1941 (with piston engine)
25 March 1942 (with jet engines)
Service Entry

30 June 1944


CREW: (Me 262A) 1 pilot
(Me 262B) 1 pilot and 1 radar officer


ESTIMATED COST:

unknown


AIRFOIL SECTIONS:
Wing Root NACA 00011-0.825-35
Wing Tip

NACA 00009-1.1-40


DIMENSIONS:
Length 34.79 ft (10.60 m)
Wingspan 40.96 ft (12.48 m)
Height 12.58 ft (3.84 m)
Wing Area 233.58 ft2 (21.70 m2)
Canard Area

not applicable


WEIGHTS:
Empty (Me 262A-1a) 8,380 lb (3,800 kg)
(Me 262B-1a) 9,700 lb (4,400 kg)
Typical Load 14,110 lb (6,400 kg)
Max Takeoff 15,720 lb (7,130 kg)
Fuel Capacity 635 gal (2,400 L)
Max Payload

at least 2,200 lb (1,000 kg)


PROPULSION:
Powerplant two Junkers Jumo 004B-1/-2/-3 axial turbojets
Thrust 3,968 lb (17.7 kN)


PERFORMANCE:
Max Level Speed at altitude:
(Me 262A-1a) 540 mph (870 km/h) at 19,685 ft (6,000 m)
(Me 262A-2a) 470 mph (755 km/h)
(Me 262B-1a) 495 mph (800 km/h)
at sea level: 515 mph (825 km/h)
Initial Climb Rate 3,935 ft (1,200 m) / min
Service Ceiling 37,565 ft (11,450 m)
Range 565 nm (1,050 km)
g-Limits unknown


ARMAMENT:
Gun (Me 262A-1a) four 30-mm MK 108 cannons (two w/100 rds ea, two w/80 rds ea)
(Me 262B-2a) some equipped with one 50-mm MK 114 cannon
Stations two external hardpoints
Air-to-Air Missile none
Air-to-Surface Missile none
Bomb (Me 262A-2a) up to two 1,100 lb (500 kg) bombs
Other (Me 262A-1b) up to 24 55-mm R4/M rockets
(Me 262B-2a) up to 48 55-mm R4/M rockets


KNOWN VARIANTS:
Me 262 V1 First prototype initially fitted with a piston engine to test flight characteristics, later fitted with two B.M.W. 003 turbojets
Me 262 V2 through V12 Test aircraft
Me 262A-0 Preproduction aircraft
Me 262A-1a Schwalbe Production single-seat fighter interceptor fitted with four cannons in the nose
Me 262A-1b Single-seat interceptor fitted with R4M air-to-air rockets
Me 262A-2a Sturmvogel Single-seat bomber based on the Me 262A-1a
Me 262A-5a Reconnaissance model
Me 262B-1a Two-seat trainer
Me 262B-1a/U1 Early two-seat night fighter equipped with a radar in the nose
Me 262B-2a Improved two-seat night fighter
Me 262C Test aircraft fitted with rocket-assisted takeoff gear; 3 built


KNOWN COMBAT RECORD:

World War II (Germany, 1944-1945)


KNOWN OPERATORS:

Germany
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Old 11-22-2005, 11:25 AM   #462
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CC
I dont remembere that at all...
well ok maybe not infront of the whole class, but a few people heard :P


and print this out for your history teacher too:

The Avro 683 Lancaster was the best heavy bomber to see service over Europe or at night during WWII.
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Old 11-22-2005, 11:30 AM   #463
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Lanc, do you have the hiccups too?!?
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Old 11-22-2005, 11:38 AM   #464
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not my fault, the site wasn't working great at the time as CC will testify........
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Old 11-22-2005, 11:39 AM   #465
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Originally Posted by the lancaster kicks ass
not my fault, the site wasn't working great at the time as CC will testify........
I think you and CC are hitting the bubbly!
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