What If: Mosquitos vs Oil Targets

[wuzak]

Attack with one squadron at a time and the 50 or so light flak weapons will slaughter them 12 aircraft at at time.

Maybe if the Mossies loitered over the flak positions....

[pbfoot]

A mass attack can overload enemy air defenses. Attack with one squadron at a time and the 50 or so light flak weapons will slaughter them 12 aircraft at at time.

Having been subject to many airfield attacks albeit LW F4's I betcha you would be hardpressed to hit one out of 12 . When coordinated you have 10 or so aircraft cross the airfield at the same time from different directions at lo altitude you are lucky to see more then 1 aircxraft

[Edgar Brooks]

A mass attack can overload enemy air defenses. .

Like Schweinfurt?

Attack with one squadron at a time and the 50 or so light flak weapons will slaughter them 12 aircraft at at time

There is no record of a whole squadron, ever, being lost in a single raid (unless you believe that "633 Squadron" is a true story.)
Remember that, after initial heavy losses, the purely bomber Mosquitoes, since they had no defensive armament, were used for night attacks, and 150 light weapons would find it difficult to track them, in the dark, at 300+ mph.
Mosquitoes were renowned for delivering 4000lb (more than the B17's load to the same target) "cookies" to Berlin twice in a night, and even that heavily-defended target was referred to as "the milk run."

[Shortround6]

Mosquitoes were renowned for delivering 4000lb (more than the B17's load to the same target) "cookies" to Berlin twice in a night, and even that heavily-defended target was referred to as "the milk run."

Can we please put this myth to rest. B-17s routinely carried 5000lbs of HE bombs to Berlin even if only once a day. The 4000lb number seems to come from averaging the weight of of bombers carrying the bulkier incendiary bombs which, because of the size of the B-17s bomb bay and the size of the US incendiary bombs meant that just over 3000lbs of incendiary bombs could be carried.

[mhuxt]

I think that myth stems from the memoirs of Don Bennett, CO (AOC?) of 8 Group, who told an American correspondent that the Mossies she was watching taking off were bound for Berlin with 4,000 lb bomb loads, same as the B-17s which she'd seen earlier.

As the quintessential Numbers Man, Bennett really should have known better.

[Edgar Brooks]

I think that myth stems from the memoirs of Don Bennett, CO (AOC?) of 8 Group, who told an American correspondent that the Mossies she was watching taking off were bound for Berlin with 4,000 lb bomb loads, same as the B-17s which she'd seen earlier.
As the quintessential Numbers Man, Bennett really should have known better.

Actually, it also comes from his direct words, at a meeting at the RAF Museum in 1977, when he said that the conversation went:-
"Where are they going?"
"To Berlin"
"What can those little things carry?"
"A 4,000lb bomb."
But, that's what the B-17 carries, isn't it?"
"Not to Berlin; with the extra fuel load, they can only manage 3,200lb."
"Geez, I'd better not tell the folks back home; they think the B-17's winning the war."

[mhuxt]

Actually, it also comes from his direct words, at a meeting at the RAF Museum in 1977, when he said that the conversation went:-
"Where are they going?"
"To Berlin"
"What can those little things carry?"
"A 4,000lb bomb."
But, that's what the B-17 carries, isn't it?"
"Not to Berlin; with the extra fuel load, they can only manage 3,200lb."
"Geez, I'd better not tell the folks back home; they think the B-17's winning the war."

He certainly included the tale in his autobiography. Where he got the figure from, I don't know, I've never found anything to back it up.

[Edgar Brooks]

He certainly included the tale in his autobiography. Where he got the figure from, I don't know, I've never found anything to back it up.

That's just it; someone must have given him those figures, since he was unlikely to have plucked them from thin air. If the reporter had found that he'd lied to her, the repercussions would have been massive.

[Milosh]

"Not to Berlin; with the extra fuel load, they can only manage 3,200lb."

303rd BG (H) Combat Mission No. 119
8 March 1944
Target: V.K.F. Ball Bearing Works, Berlin (Erkner) Germany
Crews Dispatched: 22
Crews Lost: Lt. L.B. McGrath, 10 POWs
Length of Mission: 8 hours, 50 minutes
Bomb Load: 8 x 500 lb Incendiaries (M17) / 12 x 100 G.P. bombs
Bombing Altitude: 26,800 ft
Ammo Fired: 1,895 rounds

That is 5200lb of bombs.

303rd BG (H) Combat Mission No. 120
9 March 1944
City Area, Berlin, Germany (PFF)
Crews Dispatched: 19
Bomb Load: 10 x 500 G.P. bombs
Bombing Altitude: 24,000 ft
Ammo Fired: 730 rounds

That is 5000lb of bombs.

[Shortround6]

The list of missions flown by the 303rd bomb group is available on line with combat reports that include bomb loads.

[wuzak]

"Not to Berlin; with the extra fuel load, they can only manage 3,200lb."

303rd BG (H) Combat Mission No. 119
8 March 1944
Target: V.K.F. Ball Bearing Works, Berlin (Erkner) Germany
Crews Dispatched: 22
Crews Lost: Lt. L.B. McGrath, 10 POWs
Length of Mission: 8 hours, 50 minutes
Bomb Load: 8 x 500 lb Incendiaries (M17) / 12 x 100 G.P. bombs
Bombing Altitude: 26,800 ft
Ammo Fired: 1,895 rounds

That is 5200lb of bombs.

I think that is an either/or, not combined load.

[mhuxt]

Either way, it's more than 4k, and, despite looking, I've never seen any reports of less than that amount being carried to Berlin by the Forts.

[wuzak]

Either way, it's more than 4k, and, despite looking, I've never seen any reports of less than that amount being carried to Berlin by the Forts.

Does show how the average could be lower.

[Vincenzo]

I think that is an either/or, not combined load.

is a combined load

[wuzak]

is a combined load

Ok.