Quote:
Originally Posted by Civettone  Udet;
- there's no shortage of rear gunners, especially not when taking the Ju 87 and other bombers out of production. Let's stick to pilots, ok?
- Fuel production dropped below the fuel consumption in June 1944. So up to that time there were no Bf 109s being grounded because of the Me 410. Up til that time the Luftwaffe got something like 200,000 ton a month. I think that puts your 200 ton into perspective.
- you mention 5000 l internal fuel but you know just as well as I do that you don't need to fill them up all the way. The Me 410 could fly at least three times as far as a Bf 109. So bring back that 200,000 liters to 75,000...
Kris |
Civ:
I will rephrase my idea.
The core of this notion is the widely known fact Germany was not a rich nation in terms of natural resources and men.
Germany faced critical shortages of so many materials and items, like fuel, during the last year of the war having maintained the
Zerstörergeschwadern in service to carry on with daylight missions in during the last part of 1943 and virtually through the entire 1944 -
Reichsverteidigung-was a horrifying mistake.
Germany was facing the air forces of three main enemies: USAAF, RAF and VVS, although in my view the most fundamental air force was the USAAF hands down-, something that for practical purposes is about
impossible.
It is in view of such a clear situation of disadvantage Germany could not afford to continue allocating material resources (raw materials for engines and spare parts, weapons, ammo, fuel, etc.) and workforce for producing more twin-engined fighters and
BOMBERS (!) during 1944.
I am sure you know these facts Civ so i have to say i disagree to read you consider the
zerstörern should remain in service even for the last part of 1943 when escorts did not yet attain the necessary range to protect the bombers during the whole bombing run. But what makes me feel nearly shocked is to read you think Germany should have continued producing bombers during 1944...
German planners knew perfectly well what was coming regarding aerial combat over the Reich. They had the necessary time to have the strategy revamped but instead decided to put it all in the dustbin and simply continued producing aircraft that were no longer necessary for the Luftwaffe. Terrible mistake and they paid accordingly.
1944 would have been, as it occured, a brutal year in European skies, and Germany could have had far more single engined fighters with the required pilots to batter the USAAF.
Had Germany disbanded all the ZG and most of the KG by the end of 1943, converting all pilots and the bulk of the crews to single engined fighter pilots and there is this chance the USAAF would not even dare to mention the overhyped Mustang preferring to keep it in a low profile.
In terms of raw materials a Me 210 or 410 could spawn a couple of Bf 109s.
It is difficult for me to understand anyone might fail to see how terrible that can be for a small nation with limited access to resources that is waging a war against a large common enemy.
I know a Me 410 and Bf 110 had a pilot and rear gunner Civ; so what´s your point? All those who performed as radio operator/rear gunners during 1944 could not be trained to become single engined fighter pilots?
Every guy who died as rear gunner during 1944 on a Me 410 or Bf 110 represented a pointless loss.
Also your comment bomber crews do not make good pilots is odd; how come? I agree not everyone has the talent to become a fighter pilot -or to perform any profession you can think of-, but how is it being a bomber crewman makes you unfit for becoming a Bf 109 or Fw 190 pilot? I know of a large number of cases of bomber crewmen who not only flew in He 111s as gunners, bombers or radio operators they also became aces flying in BF 109s or Fw 190s.
Your second point on the last posting: I neither said nor suggested single-engined fighters were staying on the ground because the Me 410s were stealing their fuel Civ -although it is not daring to affirm such a thing indeed could have happened after the summer of 1944-.
My point was just to illustrate how inclined to waste the German style of waging the aerial war was during late 1943 and through the whole 1944. Wasteful. Wasteful to death.
A complete mess and lack of efficiency in terms of resources management. Instead of the rough 80 Me 410s serving in any ZG during mid 1944 the Luftwaffe could have had 160 Bf 109 G-6/AS or G-10s Civ.
160 Bf 109s? We are nearly talking about a complete geschwader. How come you can not see this?
Well, i know my father does not need to fill the whole tank of his car to keep it going. But do you have any copies of formats that might show how many liters were being dispensed into a Me 410 before mission?
Ok Civ. 75,000 liters of fuel will help you putting 187 Bf 109s to go up and gut P-51s, P-47s and P-38s.
187 Bf 109s -or Fw 190s- can represent a Jagdgeschwader with the stab., three gruppen and the
Ergänzungsgruppe.
187 Bf 109s or Fw 190s that never came to life because raw materials, assembly facilities and workforce were instead being allocated to produce Me 410s, Bf 110s and bombers... bloody messy planning from the German part.
Do you agree it was wasteful Civ?
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