What of the Me 410?

Erich · 01-29-2007, 08:47 PM

CB your one posting of the Me 410 pic with the underbelly waffen pod was pretty standard equipment. 6 2cm weapons ........... ouch

Denniss · 01-29-2007, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erich

CB your one posting of the Me 410 pic with the underbelly waffen pod was pretty standard equipment. 6 2cm weapons ........... ouch

Wasn'it more standard to have four MG 151 in the bomb bay or was this only a late field conversion ? Dragwise it'll be better than with an additional underbelly weapons pod. It somewhat looks like the pod used on the Bf 110.

CharlesBronson · 01-29-2007, 09:32 PM

Yeap, I think that you mentioned earlier. There was at list one armed with 8 MG-151s.

Erich · 01-29-2007, 09:47 PM

there were at least 4 different 2cm conversions sets.

Dassows was unusual or at least claimed to have that many 2cm weapons but it really did not matter as he knew how to close in with the US bombers to score a kill and yet fell while flying a Fw 190A. fighter to fighter was not his forte' in combat experience

CharlesBronson · 01-30-2007, 08:47 PM

In some list Dassow figure is 12 viermots, most of them (if not every) were shot down with the Me-410.

This B-2 have no ventral pod and 4 Mausers in the bomb bay.

Udet · 01-31-2007, 01:28 PM

Charlie, thanks for the info. So you are correct, there were some cases when pilots decided their ships should not have the defensive MG 131s, but everything will certainly indicate such cases were rare.

Now the case of the Me 410 pilot whose ship had 8- 2cm. cannons...of course that meant a typhoon of fire would be unleashed. But what could the purpose of such configuration have been? Four MG 151/20s was more than enough to carry on with the mission of gutting bombers.

Possibly to stay more time in the air attacking several boxes on their way to targets, as indicated to pilots by radar stations?

A 2 second burst of all 8 cannons would be more than sufficient to pulverize a B-17 or B-24...so it sounds like the most logic explanation, stay in the air for longer periods of time to charge against several formations.

CharlesBronson · 01-31-2007, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Now the case of the Me 410 pilot whose ship had 8- 2cm. cannons...of course that meant a typhoon of fire would be unleashed. But what could the purpose of such configuration have been?

Probably to put a lot of explosives and AP shells in the air in the little time as possible giving no chance to the bombers gunners aim.

Quote:

Four MG 151/20s was more than enough to carry on with the mission of gutting bombers.

Teorically yes..but I think they felt that spare firepower wont hurt, specially if you face a lot of B-17s wich was ( in opinion of the german pilots ) the hardest airplane to bring down in the western Front.

Quote:

A 2 second burst of all 8 cannons would be more than sufficient to pulverize a B-17 or B-24...so it sounds like the most logic explanation, stay in the air for longer periods of time to charge against several formations.

The stay on the target area depends also of the ammo supply and range but yes with 8 guns shooting at 750 rpm each gaves a teorical rate of 6000 rpm :...wich means 100 bullets per second, wich means 200 round fired in 2 seconds...

Erich · 01-31-2007, 08:16 PM

full on firepower to destroy the victim with the least amount of time so you could set up for another rear attack/side attack

Udet · 01-31-2007, 09:18 PM

Erich do you have any guncamera footage showing Me 410s getting shot down by allied fighters? Although my collection of guncamera films is large i have none of the Me 410 getting hit...

CharlesBronson · 01-31-2007, 10:05 PM

Here you got one, not correctly named by the way...

Source.

Erich · 01-31-2007, 10:06 PM

no sorry I do not have any gun cam of 410's getting popped.

Udet · 01-31-2007, 10:50 PM

Good pic Charlie! (I saw that book in a store once, but if i recall correctly it had a different cover?)

I would like to see a guncamera film showing a Me 410 getting intercepted and hit; guncamera can be very helpful. I would like to see what a Me 410 pilot attempted to do when knowing an enemy fighter was closing in...

Pretty much like the case of the G-6/R6 version of the 109. I was so used to read the bomber hunter configuration (with the MG 151/20 cannons under the wings) was a "sitting duck" if intercepted by any of the contemporary allied fighters, i can say i had bought the story..until i saw guncamera footage of the model getting intercepted.

The films showed lots of cases when the heavier 109 manages to evade the tailing allied fighter, even after having swallowed hits from the enemy´s guns.

Civettone · 02-01-2007, 12:19 PM

Those 20mm gondolas only reduced speed by 9 mph so I think it's all very much exaggerated.

Kris

Erich · 02-01-2007, 12:28 PM

ah but then add the four Br 21cm's and their mortar launchers.

the 410 just like the overloaded Bf 110G-2 was a sitting duck to US escort fighters. Overall speed was increased, armor and visibility in the Me 410 variants and it thus proved to be a very effective bomber destroyer in the fall of 43 till it's removal in 44 and the ZG's became single engine JG units to add to the many for Reich defense .. . ........ ...

Udet · 02-01-2007, 03:39 PM

Erich, as i have commented in the past regarding the Hornisse, possibly one of the most abhorrent mistakes ever commited by the Germans during the war was to keep the zerstörern in front line service beyond the second halfd of 1943.

During the last 12 months of their operations, ZG 26 and ZG 76 swallowed both the material and human resources that could have put at least two additional Jagdgescwadern -of four gruppen each- in the air to greet the allied air forces (not including the man and material that served in the several kampfgruppen during 1944 that could have been available to enable even more jagdgeschwadern).

But with this i do not mean i agree the Me 410 was such a doomed prey when confronting enemy fighters. Hopefully someday i might come across guncamera footage.