What is the most dangerous position on a bomber? (cont.)

[cheddar cheese]

Turn the turret fully sideways, open the door and out you pop...

I wouldnt like the waist either and it wouldnt surprise me if they had the highest casualty rate, however take into account that most of the time there are 2 waist gunners, making them more susceptible to casualties.

[the lancaster kicks ass]

hey no fair, i knew you knew you were supposed to let the others guess it wasn't too common though........

[jhor9]

I read your posts and I disagree with all of you, at least regarding the B17. Simply put, the worst position on the plane is the copilot, the pilot is busy flying all the rest of the crew have guns to shoot except the copilot who just sits and prays.
I have an interesting story in this regard.that I might have posted on this site.

[elmilitaro]

Didn't the ball turret gunners have the highest casualty rate?

[syscom3]

JHOR, heres some pics I posted in a thread last year of the Collings Foundation B17 I took when I had my ride in the B24.

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/air...de-2672-3.html (My B24 ride)

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by jhor9

I read your posts and I disagree with all of you, at least regarding the B17. Simply put, the worst position on the plane is the copilot, the pilot is busy flying all the rest of the crew have guns to shoot except the copilot who just sits and prays.
I have an interesting story in this regard.that I might have posted on this site.

Sadly, that makes sense!

[plan_D]

What about the radio operator? And the guns may sound nice and give the gunner a sense of a protection, but in reality they are going to do little against a full armoured and armed Fw-190.

[lesofprimus]

I agree pd, as there are many stories of .50 cals bouncing off those armored -190's, as well as many stories of Luftwaffe pilots purposely aiming for the tail gunner....

And this thread is about most dangerous posistion, not highest casulaty rate...

[Bullockracing]

I dunno about the radio operator there pD, weren't they completely surrounded by metal and in the center of the aircraft, at least in the B17? I would think the tail gunner would be most susceptible to fighter aircraft and the bombardier would take the most flak, due to being lead.

[102first_hussars]

I would say the belly gunner, mainy because this guy is basically praying that the big ball of plexi-glass his body is surrounded by doesnt shatter leaving him (if not strapped in) to fall to his death, he is also pretty close to the bomb load, if the bomb load was to go off it would take out the whole plane but if there was slight chance that a creww member was to survive a triggering of the bomb load it sure as hell wouldnt be the belly dancer.

And this guy probably got just as much flak as the the guy up front.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I can understand where Jhor is comeing from though. Just sitting in a seat with flak and aircraft shooting at you, can make it seem like the worst seat in the house.

[Bill Akins]

The B17 before the addition of the B17G models chin turret, had an 8 ft window from the front where no other gun on the B17 could engage an enemy at 12 oclock headon except for the single B17 nose gun. This was why the luftwaffe pilots learned to attack the B17 from head on, they only had to face one single gun from the nose until the later chin turret was added. So it not only depends on which bomber your question refers to (which you didn't specify) but also on which MODEL of that bomber you refer to. In a B17 with no chin turret, the most dangerous positions were the pilot and co pilot because the enemy pilot was gunning for them, and the bombadier because he was in the nose also. This is supported by statistics for the non chin turret B17 losses.
Bill Akins.

[Twitch]

Very early on it was realized by both Luftwaffe and IJN pilots that the most vulnerable area of the heavy bomber was the flight deck and they concentrated on above and from-the-front firing passes. The pilot and co-pilot had no gun to fire back no matter how small. And if the plane got damaged they often held her steady while the crew bailed and didn't get out themselves. I'd personally rather not be on the flight deck in a bomber.

[wmaxt]

From my point of view inside the plane is the worst place. Seriously though using the actual casualities of the 95th BG for positions of aircrew of aircraft shot down.

1. Plot and Radio lost 58 men
2. Tail Gunner lost 57 men
3 Co-Pilot, Navigator, and Ball turret 56 men
4. Top Turret lost 51 men Waist lost 102 men
5. Bombardier lost 47 men

This and related info including bomber and fighter losses by the 8th AF can be found at this site. 8th Air Force Combat Losses in World War II ETO Against the AXIS Powers

wmaxt

[SM79Sparviero]

I spoke with a B-17 tail gunner and he said he liked it best because it was warm back there.

It could become too warm in flight for the relative wind which ineluctably pushes the flames back to the tail , from a fire born in fuselage or wings without dinstinctions.....