| Aviation Discuss What protoype do you wish had seen service in WW2? in the World War II - Aviation forums; Oh yes, I did realise that Elvis, it was imagining a dogfight that put me off the Meteor. Good interceptor ... |
Oh yes, I did realise that Elvis, it was imagining a dogfight that put me off the Meteor. Good interceptor for its day, but the Vampire could turn.
In the fight you was imagining the Meteor would lose, and as a Brit I'd hate to see that.Also, the Vampire too missed the war, but flew in 1943, so it fits as my answer to the thread anyway, luvvly jubbly!
Hey, looks like I just learned something!Originally Posted by Waynos
I didn't realize the Vampire was more manuverable than the Meteor.
I wonder how the Vampire compares to the P-80 and the Me-262, in manuverability? (uh oh, I forsee more reports about turning times!)
Anyway, thanks for the info.
I never meant to imply ANY Allied nation would loose any battle/sortie against any Axis nation.In the fight you was imagining the Meteor would lose, and as a Brit I'd hate to see that.
My apologies if my comments came across that way.
BTW, you're correct. The Vamp did first fly in '43, but the Meteor flew 6 months prior (March vs. September).
Elvis
No apology needed, I know you didn't mean that. The Vamp could outturn the Spitfire according to RAE tests so it should account well for itself against the P-80 or Me 262.
The Meteor and the Me 262 were pretty well matched iirc the 262 had the advantage in speed and roll the meteor climbed and dived quicker and they could both turn about the same. Post war tests usually reckon the advantage would as always have gone to the better pilot.
The Vampire would have run rings around both of them.
Ah, I see.
Yes, in that case, I think would perform quite well in a (mock, wouldn't want fellow Allies shooting each other down) dogfight with the other planes.
Elvis
Funny how the more things change, the more they stayed the same.The Meteor and the Me 262 were pretty well matched iirc the 262 had the advantage in speed and roll the meteor climbed and dived quicker and they could both turn about the same. Post war tests usually reckon the advantage would as always have gone to the better pilot.
The Vampire would have run rings around both of them.
The Vampire is starting to sound like a jet powered Zero!
Elvis
Gotta go with either the Go 229 or the Do 335B-2 (gotta love those twin Mk 103's!).
If either the Meteor or Vampire had tried to dive with a Me 262 at high altitude, they would have quickly found that they could not match its 0.83 Mach (0.86 if you were very brave). The critical Mach number was about 0.76 for the Vampire and perhaps 0.78 for the Meteor.The Meteor and the Me 262 were pretty well matched iirc the 262 had the advantage in speed and roll the meteor climbed and dived quicker and they could both turn about the same. Post war tests usually reckon the advantage would as always have gone to the better pilot.
The Vampire would have run rings around both of them.
But that was terminal mach number, not a measure that is useful in combat. For example the highest dive speed of any prop fighter was that of the Spitfire which was even higher than that of the 262 at 0.9M, but heavieraircraft like the P-47, or even the Fw190 could dive away from it initially, which was actually useful.
Not that I know whether the Meteor could initially out dive the 262 or not, just that there is a difference.
I think the Gloster were unlucky with their fighter designs - either or both could have had a avaition history rather than just be a footnote.
First - the Gloster F.5/34 which was well liked by those who flew it, could have had an order - cover if problems with the Merlin. Though would have helped if Gloster had got the prototype out earlier. For an aircraft with less h.p. the speed wasn't much different to the Hurricane. The big question would it have taken a bigger engine. Now, I am not suggesting it would have lasted throughout the War, but that it would have been better having it than the Gladiator!!
See:
Second - the Gloster F.9/37 a twin engined aircraft, smaller than both the Blenheim & Beaufighter. Like the earlier single engined aircraft - this Gloster was also well liked by those who flew her - 'highly manoeuvrable and extremely docile'. Designed to the same spec as the Whirlwind, it was based on an earlier design to the spec that the Defiant won - where the turret was dispenced with and cannons installed in the nose. If such a design had started earlier than OTL hence the eighteen months gap, then the RAF might have had a much more effective aircraft available rather than the Blenheim!HTML Code:http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloster_F.5/34
Though powered by Taurus engines didn't help.
And finally thanks Marcel, for your comments re: Fokker D.XXIII
I think the F.9/37 is one of the great might-have-beens for the RAF. It sort of puts me in mind of a British Bf110, possibly an even better 'what if', even tghough it didn't get to fly, was Supermarine 327. 4 x 20mm cannon, 20% more wing than a Spitfire with a fuselage the same length and TWO Merlins. I'd have loved to see that airborne!
Actually, I think the Gloster F.9/37 has more in common with the FW-187 than the Bf-110 - similar size and engine power. Even its successor the Gloster Reaper night-fighter looked like it regarding the cockpit and profile.
Yes, on reflection you are right. It was closer to the Fw187. Still, Taurus or Peregrine eh. What a choice!
All very true although the Spitfire was not actually controlable at 0.89M, just able to survive often with a damaged prop and engine. However, the quoted maximum speed of a Me 262 at 6,000 m is already 0.76M. Thus in theory a Me 262 might be able to dive away after attacking a formation of Meteors at a speed that could not be followed. Looking at acceleration, the higher speed of the 262 suggests low drag compared to a Meteor F3. As the weight is similar, we might expect the 262 to accelerate better in a dive. The Vampire was smaller and may have had less drag but was also lighter. Thus I suspect that a 262 could evade either fighter by diving. Of course, being able to escape may not be enough to win!
I suppose if I wanted to be argumentative I could say 'Ah but, Meteor III or IV?' But no. As the III was operational at the same time as the 262 while the IV was slightly later I'll leave it at that
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