Willi Reschke´s G-?, August 29th,1944

[Wurger]

Originally Posted by seesul

To Wurger:
Thanks for your prompty answer! It´s a pity you don´t live near the Czech/Polish border anymore....

Yeap,I could have some beers.Do you like it, don't you.

Originally Posted by seesul

To Königstiger:
my friend says it´s G-14AS. If you can read German, look at this:

1)Kinnbeule
2)Bsk 16
3)Antenmast des FuG 16 ZY unter der linken Tragfläche

1 und 3 ist typische für G-14/AS, nicht für G-6/AS oder G-6/ASy. Ersten GMaschinen der G-14/AS reihe erhielt Jagdwaffe seit August 1944(z.B. II./JG 27-Quelle: Jochen Prien : Chronik des II/JG27 S. 471,455, II./JG 53-Quelle: J.Prien/P.Rodeike:messerschmitt Bf 109 F,G,K Series,S.148,149
.

I think it is possible but the G6AS,G10AS and G14AS were very similar one to another.Looking at the pictures I've got the impression it could be even later G5AS.For sure, it is early one of the mentioned versions.There aren't visible the big oblong bugles over the wheel wells what are typical for 660x190 main wheels of the later main landing gears.There is visible the small part of this in the second pic only and it is very hard to tell something on that.It looks like the small one for me, I mean for the 660x160 wheels.The tail wheel looks also small with a short gear.

[seesul]

Thank you Wojtek!

Great! Which kind of graphic programm do you use?
Yes, you are right, all these versions are very similar but I can´t discuss about each version as I´m not a Bf-expert... Will try to get that picture that is in the Jiri Rajlich´s book.

Sure, I like a beer. It´s my water in fact

Roman

[Erich]

I'm here for about 5 minutes. Reschkes mount is a G-6 not an AS version, there were no G-10's available in August of 44 to Reich defense the G-14's and AS version were in plae but not for the diminished JG 302 as I have mentioned several times, the unit was dissolving for many pilots to reform up JG 301 for the defense of the homeland, so please friends quit this and stop beating yourselves up !

machs gut !

E ~

[seesul]

Originally Posted by Erich

I'm here for about 5 minutes. Reschkes mount is a G-6 not an AS version, there were no G-10's available in August of 44 to Reich defense the G-14's and AS version were in plae but not for the diminished JG 302 as I have mentioned several times, the unit was dissolving for many pilots to reform up JG 301 for the defense of the homeland, so please friends quit this and stop beating yourselves up !

machs gut !

E ~

O.K. Erich,

but you are following your records and written material you have and logically you´re right as well but the pictures show another version. At least engine cowling doesn´t correspondent to usual G-6 version. Even Willi Reschke said he believes this picture is a photomounting. Why? So there´s something strange...
Let us playing , I´ll look for another picture yet...

Roman

[Erich]

question why would Willi feel his pic of the G-6 ~ G-6/AS have been played with ?

Wurger points out some interesting pic points but they are also part of the very late G-6 series. JG 302 logs according to credence, affiliated German document records shows no G-10's or G-14's and sub types given to the unit before disolvemnet

~ on it goes, Reschkes flugbuch would not indicate an AS subtype but only G-6 in my understnading of viewing some in the past

[seesul]

Originally Posted by Erich

question why would Willi feel his pic of the G-6 ~ G-6/AS have been played with ?

Wurger points out some interesting pic points but they are also part of the very late G-6 series. JG 302 logs according to credence, affiliated German document records shows no G-10's or G-14's and sub types given to the unit before disolvemnet

~ on it goes, Reschkes flugbuch would not indicate an AS subtype but only G-6 in my understnading of viewing some in the past

Good question Erich,

Because for him the machine on the picture is not a G-6 version, but his records says pure G-6. So that´s why he told me this is a photomounting. He just can´t belive that his machine should be something else than pure G-6...but the engine cowling is not usual for G-6 version...

Erich- my question to you- did the late G-6 have a big engine cowling, even with the DB605AM engine? If so, this could explain this discussion. I repeat, I´m not a Bf-expert.

[Wurger]

I'm also not a Bf-expert and I think Erich is right especially he is an expert at these things.
But the pics are very interesting and you Erich have to admit it.
I've found another interesting info on G-10 version. G-10 elevators were equipped with double trim tabs but G-6 or G-14 didn't.In the third pic ( I've marked it with yellow circle in my pic) we can clearly see only a single trim tab.So if the info is true it means the Bf is not G-10.What do you think?

[seesul]

Originally Posted by Wurger

I'm also not a Bf-expert and I think Erich is right especially he is an expert at these things.
But the pics are very interesting and you Erich have to admit it.
I've found another interesting info on G-10 version. G-10 elevators were equipped with double trim tabs but G-6 or G-14 didn't.In the third pic ( I've marked it with yellow circle in my pic) we can clearly see only a single trim tab.So if the info is true it means the Bf is not G-10.What do you think?

Wurger,

don´t worry, Erich is a very good friend of mine and we are not fighting. I know he´s one of the best here.
But back to Willi Reschke´s machine- as I said, Willi says, he flew G-6 on August 29th 1944. But I sent him this photo and then I called him and was told, that this is not his machine as it is photomontage. But this is not and I already told why in this discussion.
So could someone tell me, what was the different between early and late G-6 version? I´d say tail (rudder),canopy, etc. BUT IS IT POSSIBLE, that the LATE VERSION HAD THE BIG ENGINE COWLING even with the DB605AM engine mounted?

Thanks

[Erich]

hey guys I have a small note in French from a friend back in the 1990's that says in September of 44 the I./Jg 302 was the only gruppe of JG 302 left, the Stab, II. and III./Jg 302 had disbanded in June of 44. I. gruppe flew the G-6 till September 44's end before the transfer of pilots and the staffels formed the new Fw 190A-8 and A-8/R2 equipped III./JG 301 which became the Schwere Staffel of JG 301 tasked almost solely with attacking US heavy bombers from the rear in series of 4-5 aircraft in a wedge attack.

E ~

[seesul]

I´m sorry now that I said whose machine it is.
I should better only show the picture and ask for the version and let it run as a technical request...
It would be interresting to see the answers...
My fault, next time guys

[seesul]

Hi Chris,

this is what you have written:
I might just missunderstanding you but by "Beulen" do you mean the bulges that are the Bf 109G varients.

Because if you are, there are bulges present on this Bf 109G in the picture. I have circled them in red.

I don´t think the area you have circled is a bulge because in the middle there´s a hole for the hand crank (engine start). Normal G-6 version and even late version has a bulge and this hole is beside this bulge (in front of this bulge). So try to compare these two pics attached. One of them is that one that you´ve posted and the second one shows a G-6 version (downloaded from Wikipedia). On my opinion it is AS version. But sure I can be wrong...
I´ve circled the holes in yellow.
Sorry Erich, I can get no sleep due to this discussion
What´s your opinion?

[Wurger]

Hi Roman,

From the beginning it didn't matter for me to whom the aircraft belonged to.I've got the impression that you are interested in the type of the plane but not in the "owner".Therefore I've tried to help as much as it was possible.Going through some book about BF 109G versions I've noticed some similarities to the plane in your pic.As you said these were of the cockpit conopy ,the fin and rudder.Looking at the pics I have to state that the Bf 109 was equipped with all-metal taller fin and rudder ,Earla-haube conopy and a tail wheel on the short gear,typical for later G-6.If the three pics you uploaded present the same a/c it had to be one with a small bulges on over the wheel wells ( seen in the second shot), typical for G-6 version and early G-10/G-14)All later G-10/14 had the big oblong bulges.Now, the engine cowling - G-6 with DB605A engine had the very charakteristic bulges on the fuselage for the MG 131s,in the third pic it is seen that it didn't had these ( from this view these should be clearly visible).It suggests the AS engine.Besides the area of early G-6( with the MGs bulges - uploaded pic) looked different fom the one of G-6AS I've found info that many damaged standard G-6s were converted into G-6AS version.It seems that the G-10AS looked at the area also different( uploaded pic).So,taking all the infos in to consideration I can state that the Bf 109 in these pic can be G-6AS later version or G-14AS early one.This in my opinion.Besides,I haven't found any info on the DB605 mounted with the cowling of DB605AS so far.

regards,
Wojtek

[Erich]

well due to the circumstances the pic is in regard terrible, you or anyone else cannot rule out the bulges neither can we specifically confirm it is an AS G-6. Lets make it perfectly clear this is Reschkes craft and he is in I./JG 302 a unit that never acquired the G-14 anything or G-10, if anything his a/c in this case could be a mock up of G-6 and AS parts, the G-6/AS never went into full production as a separate complete unit it was a rehash of other parts to make a smoother running unit and with additional MW 50 injection a redesigned engine cowling. From what I also understand from Bf 109G and K experten there was never a G-10AS version just the G-10.

[seesul]

Originally Posted by Wurger

Hi Roman,

From the beginning it didn't matter for me to whom the aircraft belonged to.I've got the impression that you are interested in the type of the plane but not in the "owner".Therefore I've tried to help as much as it was possible.Going through some book about BF 109G versions I've noticed some similarities to the plane in your pic.As you said these were of the cockpit conopy ,the fin and rudder.Looking at the pics I have to state that the Bf 109 was equipped with all-metal taller fin and rudder ,Earla-haube conopy and a tail wheel on the short gear,typical for later G-6.If the three pics you uploaded present the same a/c it had to be one with a small bulges on over the wheel wells ( seen in the second shot), typical for G-6 version and early G-10/G-14)All later G-10/14 had the big oblong bulges.Now, the engine cowling - G-6 with DB605A engine had the very charakteristic bulges on the fuselage for the MG 131s,in the third pic it is seen that it didn't had these ( from this view these should be clearly visible).It suggests the AS engine.Besides the area of early G-6( with the MGs bulges - uploaded pic) looked different fom the one of G-6AS I've found info that many damaged standard G-6s were converted into G-6AS version.It seems that the G-10AS looked at the area also different( uploaded pic).So,taking all the infos in to consideration I can state that the Bf 109 in these pic can be G-6AS later version or G-14AS early one.This in my opinion.Besides,I haven't found any info on the DB605 mounted with the cowling of DB605AS so far.

regards,
Wojtek

Thank you Wojtek,
your opinion is the same like mine... as you said- many standart G-6 were converted into G-6AS version. I got the same info on one German forum. After this conversion the Wnr. stayed the same, so these machines were G-6 on paper but in fact G-6AS.
One German guy, that is an DB6... engine expert told me that it´s impossible to have the machine with the big engine cowling (AS version) with the DB605A (AM) engine. There´s too many this to be modified and it was in fact impossible under field conditions.
Anyway, I sent these pics to one Czech guy, that is one of the best on Bf´s identifications and will post his result as soon as I get it. He´s first sight impression is AS version...

bye

[Kuba]

Dear All.

This Gustav is a AS version, G-6/AS is my guess.
Why?

There are no bulges for MG 131 belt links chutes but a streamlined fairing (seen on photos, look carefully), there is no MW filler point so G-14/AS it can't be.
The cold start device cover is in lower position, so it must be AS engine (despite there were no G-10 in august of 1944).
Lower tailwheel as well as characteristic rudder and fuselage spine paint job pattern makes me try to identify manufacturer as Mtt. Regensburg.
It fits the main form of those machines

There were NO G-10/AS version. If any Gustav flew in this configuration it was no more than field repair where AS engine was mounted instead D.
There are Erla built G-14/AS and G-10 often misidentified as G-10/AS.

all the best!
Kuba