Worst aircraft of WW2? - Page 31 - Aircraft of World War II

plan_D · 01-26-2006, 10:42 AM

It's my understanding the myth came from a bad translation. What was translated as "Support of ground forces" was taken to mean direct close air support (ground attack) - however that has been updated; in the Russian system "support of ground forces" means to secure air superiority and to halt any enemy air attacks on the ground forces.

102first_hussars · 01-26-2006, 05:16 PM

I think If the P-39 was given a more powerfull engine and better armament it would have had a much better service record in my opinion.

Gnomey · 01-26-2006, 08:01 PM

P-63...

Hellbird · 01-26-2006, 09:25 PM

p-39

FLYBOYJ · 01-26-2006, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

This is the way I always looked at the P-39. It was a decent aircraft but she was a step behind the Spitfire, Bf-109, Fw-190 and P-51. Sure at the hands of an experienced pilot she could get the job done. She was deffinatly in my opinion better suited for ground attack than as a fighter. Plus as stated before I would not like to sit on a drive shaft!

Agree - I put the P-63 about a half of step behind the Mustang, Later Spitfire Models and early Me-109G models...

HealzDevo · 01-28-2006, 12:15 AM

I still reckon that the Martin Mariner was one of the worst aircraft of WW2. It earned from the crews that flew it the nickname of the 'Flying Gas Can' for its habit of exploding in mid-air!!! A famous case was that a squadron of fighters went missing in the Bermuda Triangle shortly after the War. A Martin Mariner was sent to find them but a bright explosion was seen- presumeably the Martin Mariner exploding?
There is also the He-177 Grief on the German side which had a habit of catching fire and burning. Germany's own aircrews nicknamed it the 'Flying Coffin' for goodness sakes. If the aircrews that operate such aircraft give them such uncomplementary nicknames doesn't that put them in the running for the Worst Aircraft of WW2. Don't these aircrews have enough to worry about without wondering whether they are going to be burnt to death or blown up by faults in the aircraft? These two are worthy nominations for Worst Aircraft of WW2. They may have done the job, but they certainly wouldn't have done anything for the aircrews' peace of mind.

FLYBOYJ · 01-28-2006, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HealzDevo

I still reckon that the Martin Mariner was one of the worst aircraft of WW2. It earned from the crews that flew it the nickname of the 'Flying Gas Can' for its habit of exploding in mid-air!!! A famous case was that a squadron of fighters went missing in the Bermuda Triangle shortly after the War. A Martin Mariner was sent to find them but a bright explosion was seen- presumeably the Martin Mariner exploding?

Now that I disagree with!!! I knew many "ole timers" who flew the Mariner During and after WW2. Not the most endearing patrol plane in the world, the "Pig Boat" served faithfully until Viet Nam in its later version, the Marlin. I don't know where you heard of it being a flying gas can, but I could tell you many of the crews I met actually preferred the Mariner/ Marlin over the P-2...

As far as the Bermuda Triangle story, it was never substantiated what happened to any of the aircraft lost that day including the Mariner.

The Mariner provided much of the ASW work during the Korean War and I even heard stories of several sinking submarines during the clandestine post Korean War period...

There were close to 1800 Mariners built from the PBM-1 through the much Improved PBM-5 and finally the P5M-1 Marlin which was retired from USN service in 1968 and was the US Navy's last seaplane.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 01-28-2006, 10:14 AM

I actually just saw a documentary on that mission over the Bemuda Triangle, and they beleive that the lead planes navigational equipment was faulty and even though the rest of the flight told him so, the "experienced" pilot he was, would not listen to the trainees. They ran out of gas and crashed in bad weather.

FLYBOYJ · 01-28-2006, 10:47 AM

I worked with several people who flew Mariners during WW2 and into the Korean War. The earlier -3s were a bit underpowered. It was the -5 that was the real improvement and the Marlin was probably the zenith of ASW flying boats until the Japanese deployed their Shin Meiwa PS-1 which was actually based on the Mariner/ Marlin. HealzDevo, I'd like to see where you got this story that the Mariner was a flying gas can, be rest assured if it was the VP community would of seen that it was immediately withdrawn...

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 01-28-2006, 10:51 AM

I never said it was flying gas can. I actually like the plane, even though I believe he is correct that one did not return when it was sent out to find the missing pilots from the "Ghost Squadron" in the Bermuda Traingle.

FLYBOYJ · 01-28-2006, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

I never said it was flying gas can. I actually like the plane, even though I believe he is correct that one did not return when it was sent out to find the missing pilots from the "Ghost Squadron" in the Bermuda Traingle.

Oh I know Adler, I was refering to HealzDevo....

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 01-28-2006, 01:13 PM

OOOps I misunderstood then. Sorry

FLYBOYJ · 01-28-2006, 01:25 PM

No sweat!

wmaxt · 01-28-2006, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

I never said it was flying gas can. I actually like the plane, even though I believe he is correct that one did not return when it was sent out to find the missing pilots from the "Ghost Squadron" in the Bermuda Traingle.

Oh I know Adler, I was refering to HealzDevo....

I've heard the 'Flying Gas Can' and the explosion explanation for a number of unexplained Mariner losses. I also heard that story about the rescue attempt of the avengers and this is what they attributed the loss of the Mariner to. I don't know if some earlier planes had problems or just crap like so much of the P-38 stuff is.

wmaxt

FLYBOYJ · 01-28-2006, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wmaxt

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

I never said it was flying gas can. I actually like the plane, even though I believe he is correct that one did not return when it was sent out to find the missing pilots from the "Ghost Squadron" in the Bermuda Traingle.

Oh I know Adler, I was refering to HealzDevo....

I've heard the 'Flying Gas Can' and the explosion explanation for a number of unexplained Mariner losses. I also heard that story about the rescue attempt of the avengers and this is what they attributed the loss of the Mariner to. I don't know if some earlier planes had problems or just crap like so much of the P-38 stuff is.

wmaxt

just crap like so much of the P-38 stuff is.

01-26-2006, 10:42 AM	#451
plan_D Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 11,978	It's my understanding the myth came from a bad translation. What was translated as "Support of ground forces" was taken to mean direct close air support (ground attack) - however that has been updated; in the Russian system "support of ground forces" means to secure air superiority and to halt any enemy air attacks on the ground forces. __________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004 To those in that club.

01-26-2006, 05:16 PM	#452
102first_hussars Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Edmonton,Alberta Posts: 2,259	I think If the P-39 was given a more powerfull engine and better armament it would have had a much better service record in my opinion. __________________ Hello me...meet the real me. And my misfits way of life. A dark black past is my Most valued possession. Hindsight is always 20-20, But looking back its still a bit fuzzy. Speak of mutually assured destruction? Nice story...tell it to readers digest!!!

01-26-2006, 08:01 PM	#453
Gnomey "World Traveller" Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Royal Deeside/St Andrews, Scotland, UK Posts: 15,217	P-63... __________________ "Success is not Final, Failure is not Fatal, it is the Courage to Continue that Counts" Sir Winston Churchill "To him the People of the World Largely owe the Freedom and Liberties they Enjoy Today" Enscription on Hugh Dowding's (AOC Fighter Command 1936-40) statue in London WW2 Talk: A WW2 Discussion Forum My Photo Collections on Flickr

01-26-2006, 09:25 PM	#454
Hellbird Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 21	p-39 __________________ yay capitolism!!!!

01-28-2006, 12:15 AM	#456
HealzDevo Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Queensland Posts: 1,249	I still reckon that the Martin Mariner was one of the worst aircraft of WW2. It earned from the crews that flew it the nickname of the 'Flying Gas Can' for its habit of exploding in mid-air!!! A famous case was that a squadron of fighters went missing in the Bermuda Triangle shortly after the War. A Martin Mariner was sent to find them but a bright explosion was seen- presumeably the Martin Mariner exploding? There is also the He-177 Grief on the German side which had a habit of catching fire and burning. Germany's own aircrews nicknamed it the 'Flying Coffin' for goodness sakes. If the aircrews that operate such aircraft give them such uncomplementary nicknames doesn't that put them in the running for the Worst Aircraft of WW2. Don't these aircrews have enough to worry about without wondering whether they are going to be burnt to death or blown up by faults in the aircraft? These two are worthy nominations for Worst Aircraft of WW2. They may have done the job, but they certainly wouldn't have done anything for the aircrews' peace of mind. __________________ http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/alb...500&ppuser=671 Link To My Picture Gallery

01-28-2006, 10:14 AM	#458
DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crewchief Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany Posts: 33,152	I actually just saw a documentary on that mission over the Bemuda Triangle, and they beleive that the lead planes navigational equipment was faulty and even though the rest of the flight told him so, the "experienced" pilot he was, would not listen to the trainees. They ran out of gas and crashed in bad weather. __________________ fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"[/I]

01-28-2006, 10:47 AM	#459
FLYBOYJ IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 16,049	I worked with several people who flew Mariners during WW2 and into the Korean War. The earlier -3s were a bit underpowered. It was the -5 that was the real improvement and the Marlin was probably the zenith of ASW flying boats until the Japanese deployed their Shin Meiwa PS-1 which was actually based on the Mariner/ Marlin. HealzDevo, I'd like to see where you got this story that the Mariner was a flying gas can, be rest assured if it was the VP community would of seen that it was immediately withdrawn... __________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT"

01-28-2006, 10:51 AM	#460
DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crewchief Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany Posts: 33,152	I never said it was flying gas can. I actually like the plane, even though I believe he is correct that one did not return when it was sent out to find the missing pilots from the "Ghost Squadron" in the Bermuda Traingle. __________________ fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"[/I]

01-28-2006, 01:13 PM	#462
DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crewchief Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany Posts: 33,152	OOOps I misunderstood then. Sorry __________________ fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"[/I]

01-28-2006, 01:25 PM	#463
FLYBOYJ IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 16,049	No sweat! __________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT"

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