 | Worst aircraft of WW2? (Continued)| Aviation Discuss Worst aircraft of WW2? (Continued) in the World War II - Aviation forums; Not only ground attack, but they found it to be an excellent air superiority fighter too.
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01-20-2006, 10:00 AM
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#407 | | "Shooter"
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moorpark, CA
Posts: 12,538
Country:  | Yup.
__________________  http://www.vg-photo.com Wherever their bones may lie, the courage of heroes is consecrated in the hearts and engraved in the history of the free. Lt Col Honner DSO MC, 39th Commander speaking of the dead from the battle of Kokoda. | 
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01-20-2006, 10:07 AM
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#408 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,007
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by evangilder Agreed, Joe. I saw a program the other night on the military channel about Russian aviation during the great patriotic war and they said the P-39 worked well for the Russians because they typically flew it below 12,000 feet and the 37MM cannon was great fo ground attack. | I think several things doomed the P-39 as being a bad airplane. First it was actually an unstable aircraft, it was actually designed that way as a fighter. When used in the ground support role, I believe the pilots flew it cautiously. It was when the better pilots (Tommy Lynch and Buzz Wagner) got their hands on it is when its true potential as a fighter became evident, but by then the P-38 was arriving in the Pacific. Also I think it was a matter of tactics - If I'm not mistaken I believe the USAAF were still flying 3 ship flights similar to the RAF at the beginning of the BoB. From what I understand this gave little room for maneuvering as the two wing men were tight with their leader. When the 4 man, 2 element flight was introduced, this gave a better tactical plan and enabled each aircraft more flexibility.
If anyone has any information on this, please post it, this is from memory, many dead brain cells ago!!!
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01-20-2006, 10:17 AM
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#409 | | He who does not skim
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,957
Country:  | I've read that Russian pilots found the Airacobras to be very stable in flight. I suppose it was all related to experience. Maybe it was based on a comparison to earlier VVS fighters?  | |
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01-20-2006, 10:24 AM
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#410 | | "Shooter"
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moorpark, CA
Posts: 12,538
Country: | Compared to the I-16, it probably was a dream to fly! 
__________________ http://www.vg-photo.com Wherever their bones may lie, the courage of heroes is consecrated in the hearts and engraved in the history of the free. Lt Col Honner DSO MC, 39th Commander speaking of the dead from the battle of Kokoda. | |
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01-20-2006, 10:54 AM
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#411 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,007
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by evangilder Compared to the I-16, it probably was a dream to fly! | 
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01-20-2006, 10:54 AM
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#412 | | He who does not skim
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,957
Country: | Heh. No doubt, if what you and Eric (the other one ) say is true about the I-16. | |
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01-20-2006, 10:57 AM
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#413 | | "Shooter"
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moorpark, CA
Posts: 12,538
Country: | I have heard it said by pilots that have flown the I-16 that if you could fly it, you could fly anything.
__________________ http://www.vg-photo.com Wherever their bones may lie, the courage of heroes is consecrated in the hearts and engraved in the history of the free. Lt Col Honner DSO MC, 39th Commander speaking of the dead from the battle of Kokoda. | |
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01-20-2006, 12:35 PM
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#414 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,007
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Originally Posted by evangilder I have heard it said by pilots that have flown the I-16 that if you could fly it, you could fly anything. | Yep!! I heard landings were almost suicidal. I guess the thing really liked to snake and if you added power low and slow there wasn't enough rudder to offset torque effect....
Maybe when some of the guys from the museum start flying the museum's I-16 they could confirm this...
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01-20-2006, 12:41 PM
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#415 | | "Shooter"
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moorpark, CA
Posts: 12,538
Country: | Eric said that Varter has been flying it. I should have a chat with him about it. He knows how to tell a story too. He told a story about flying the Martlett around Toronto and how the tower guys wanted to see it, so they diverted all the traffic from Toronto Int'l Airport so that he could do some tower flybys for them. When he told that story at the airshow, my sides hurt from laughing.
__________________ http://www.vg-photo.com Wherever their bones may lie, the courage of heroes is consecrated in the hearts and engraved in the history of the free. Lt Col Honner DSO MC, 39th Commander speaking of the dead from the battle of Kokoda. | |
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01-20-2006, 02:34 PM
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#416 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,007
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by evangilder Eric said that Varter has been flying it. I should have a chat with him about it. He knows how to tell a story too. He told a story about flying the Martlett around Toronto and how the tower guys wanted to see it, so they diverted all the traffic from Toronto Int'l Airport so that he could do some tower flybys for them. When he told that story at the airshow, my sides hurt from laughing. | That's great!!! Edwards did that to us when I flew one of my FCF flights in BAEs' F-4s. It was several years since the F-4 left Edwards; some Colonel in the tower heard us coming in for a touch and go, he asked if we could do a few low approaches - they had a B-1 and 2 F-16 hold over Rogers Lake as we did our little airshow!!!
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01-20-2006, 03:32 PM
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#417 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Edmonton,Alberta
Posts: 2,260
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by evangilder I have heard it said by pilots that have flown the I-16 that if you could fly it, you could fly anything. | Ive heard a few geezers say that about the Harvard trainer, but Ive heard mostly good things about the Harvard.
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Nice story...tell it to readers digest!!! | |
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01-20-2006, 03:39 PM
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#418 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Saffron Walden/Sheffield
Posts: 3,001
Country:  | I'm sticking with the Botha for this dubious accolade- so bad it didn't go to operational squadrons
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01-20-2006, 03:44 PM
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#419 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Royal Deeside/St Andrews, Scotland, UK
Posts: 11,232
Country: | Yes it did:
"Deliveries began in May 1940 to No 608 (North Riding) Sqn and others served briefly with No 502 Sqn; No 608 operated the Blackburn Botha until November 1940 but it was seriously underpowered and was then assigned to second-line units, such as No 3 School of General Reconnaissance, No 11 Radio School and other training units until declared obsolete in 1944. A few served as target tugs, with winch gear replacing the dorsal turret." http://www.jaapteeuwen.com/ww2aircra...0BOTHA%20I.htm
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01-20-2006, 03:49 PM
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#420 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Saffron Walden/Sheffield
Posts: 3,001
Country: | ok, it saw front-line service for 6 months until it went to training schools, but this was a newly designed airplane, not one that had served prewar like the Battle that had become obselete- this pile of junk was obselete when it reached the front line
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