Worst aircraft of WW2? (Continued) - Page 41 - Aircraft of World War II

FLYBOYJ · 10-30-2006, 01:13 PM

Correct - some RAF Squadrons in the Pacific didn't do too badly - there's some info in earlier threads.

The Finns loved the aircraft and made great use of it...

DamoSanchez · 11-05-2006, 01:11 AM

the Aussie WirraWay, only shot down like 1 zero in the entire war

rochie · 11-16-2006, 12:49 PM

dunno if anyone else has mentioned this but what about the He-177, overley complicated engines a problem that never got fixed, they even tried to make it a dive bomber ! so it probabley never had a chance anyway

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 11-16-2006, 01:28 PM

I agree that it was a terrible aircraft but it did not get a chance to really prove that. I think the He-177 was a promising design just plagued by the stupid coupled engines.

GANJIRO · 11-19-2006, 07:33 AM

Honorable (dishonorable?) mention should go to the Chance Vought SB2U Vindicator (aka "Vibrator").
No SB2U survived the war; approximately 30 percent were lost in combat while 50 percent were lost due to accidents and attrition.

plan_D · 11-19-2006, 09:08 AM

I agree, I mentioned it earlier:

"I don't know if it could be considered the worst but it's certainly one for the running. The Vought-Sikorsky SB2U Vindicator (Chesapeake in RN service).

It achieved nothing. For 1937 it was a modern aircraft for USN standards but with the inclusion of modern military equipment it was under-powered and obselete by the start of the war. Those in FAA service were replaced by Swordfish Mk.IIs.

It was supposed to be carrier capable but it turned out to have too long of a take-off length to take off from a carrier. 50% of the casualties in them were due to carrier training accidents upon it's introduction. 30% of all built were lost to the enemy."

FLYBOYJ · 11-19-2006, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GANJIRO

Honorable (dishonorable?) mention should go to the Chance Vought SB2U Vindicator (aka "Vibrator").
No SB2U survived the war; approximately 30 percent were lost in combat while 50 percent were lost due to accidents and attrition.

While not the best in its class the Vindicator did inflict damage when used in combat - I don't know where you got the 50% attrition rate but after Pearl Harbor many obsolete combat aircraft were used as advanced trainers and in those early years of the war many aircraft had high attrition rates because of the amounts of new pilots being trained, especially those being carrier qualified...

ndicki · 11-19-2006, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamoSanchez

the Aussie WirraWay, only shot down like 1 zero in the entire war

Mind you, it's not as though Wirraways were really MEANT to get stuck into the Japs. Advanced operational trainer rather than a fully-fledged combat aircraft.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 11-19-2006, 02:10 PM

Oh come on there ndicki, Id take on a Zero with a Fiesler Storch! Id probably win too because the Jap would be laughing so hard, I could shoot him down with my pistol.

FLYBOYJ · 11-19-2006, 02:48 PM

Something else about the Vindicator - A high accident rate in the late 30s? Prior to that we saw bi-planes with approach speeds under 100 kts. The Vindicator, a modern monoplane for it's time would probably have a way higher approach speed, the high attrition rate and longer take off roll explained - I would not call this aircraft a crown gem by any means, but there were many a lot more dismal than this guy!

Vindicators mauled the Mikuma during Midway....

GANJIRO · 11-19-2006, 04:03 PM

Yup, deffinately alot worse planes than the "Vibrator" thus just worthy of dishonorable mention, maybe on the top ten worst of U.S. planes at U.S. entry into war.
Good Vindicator info here:
Chance-Vought SB2U Vindicator, by Jack McKillop

ndicki · 11-19-2006, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GANJIRO

Yup, deffinately alot worse planes than the "Vibrator" thus just worthy of dishonorable mention, maybe on the top ten worst of U.S. planes at U.S. entry into war.

Which is most of them!

NO! PEACE! I DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING! NO! MERCY!

(You see what it's like in an American-dominated forum!)

Wildcat · 11-19-2006, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ndicki

Mind you, it's not as though Wirraways were really MEANT to get stuck into the Japs. Advanced operational trainer rather than a fully-fledged combat aircraft.

True and therefore the role the Wirraway played in successfully training thousands of pilots for the EATS to fly in combat in every theater of WWII cannot be over looked. On these grounds alone, I believe it shouldn't be ranked in the worst a/c category.
Saying that however, when used in the role of a fighter it was totally outclassed, but what do you expect from an a/c that was designed as a general purpose trainer? It was only out of sheer desperation that the Wirraway was used as a fighter to defend Malaya and Rabaul in the first place. The RAAF simply had no other a/c at the time. On the 20th of January 1942, 8 Wirraway's took of to intercept over 100 Japanese a/c over Rabaul, the zero's got stuck in and decimated them. Brave men indeed!
In New Guniea and Bougainville the Wirraway was used for Tac Recce, Arty Observation, target marking and Army Co-op to great effect and was ideal for these jobs.
Not the worlds greatest a/c of WWII but definately not the worst.

plan_D · 11-20-2006, 04:08 AM

The Blenheim didn't suffer that high an attrition rate, Flyboy, and it was an advance from Hawker Hind! Over 100 MPH faster, landing flaps and twin engine!

rochie · 11-20-2006, 05:13 AM

agreed it might have been a great bomber (the he-177) with a normal engine layout, but was seen as twin engined and hitler insisted it be capable of dive bombing

10-30-2006, 01:13 PM	#601
FLYBOYJ IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 15,981	Correct - some RAF Squadrons in the Pacific didn't do too badly - there's some info in earlier threads. The Finns loved the aircraft and made great use of it... __________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT"

11-16-2006, 01:28 PM	#604
DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crewchief Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany Posts: 33,011	I agree that it was a terrible aircraft but it did not get a chance to really prove that. I think the He-177 was a promising design just plagued by the stupid coupled engines. __________________ fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"[/I]

11-19-2006, 09:08 AM	#606
plan_D Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 11,978	I agree, I mentioned it earlier: "I don't know if it could be considered the worst but it's certainly one for the running. The Vought-Sikorsky SB2U Vindicator (Chesapeake in RN service). It achieved nothing. For 1937 it was a modern aircraft for USN standards but with the inclusion of modern military equipment it was under-powered and obselete by the start of the war. Those in FAA service were replaced by Swordfish Mk.IIs. It was supposed to be carrier capable but it turned out to have too long of a take-off length to take off from a carrier. 50% of the casualties in them were due to carrier training accidents upon it's introduction. 30% of all built were lost to the enemy." __________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004 To those in that club.

11-19-2006, 02:48 PM	#610
FLYBOYJ IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 15,981	Something else about the Vindicator - A high accident rate in the late 30s? Prior to that we saw bi-planes with approach speeds under 100 kts. The Vindicator, a modern monoplane for it's time would probably have a way higher approach speed, the high attrition rate and longer take off roll explained - I would not call this aircraft a crown gem by any means, but there were many a lot more dismal than this guy! Vindicators mauled the Mikuma during Midway.... __________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT"

11-20-2006, 04:08 AM	#614
plan_D Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 11,978	The Blenheim didn't suffer that high an attrition rate, Flyboy, and it was an advance from Hawker Hind! Over 100 MPH faster, landing flaps and twin engine! __________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004 To those in that club.

11-05-2006, 01:11 AM	#602
DamoSanchez Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1	the Aussie WirraWay, only shot down like 1 zero in the entire war

11-16-2006, 12:49 PM	#603
rochie Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: billingham nr middlesbrough uk Posts: 3,032	dunno if anyone else has mentioned this but what about the He-177, overley complicated engines a problem that never got fixed, they even tried to make it a dive bomber ! so it probabley never had a chance anyway

11-19-2006, 07:33 AM	#605
GANJIRO Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Maui, Hawaii Posts: 10	Honorable (dishonorable?) mention should go to the Chance Vought SB2U Vindicator (aka "Vibrator"). No SB2U survived the war; approximately 30 percent were lost in combat while 50 percent were lost due to accidents and attrition.

11-19-2006, 04:03 PM	#611
GANJIRO Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Maui, Hawaii Posts: 10	Yup, deffinately alot worse planes than the "Vibrator" thus just worthy of dishonorable mention, maybe on the top ten worst of U.S. planes at U.S. entry into war. Good Vindicator info here: Chance-Vought SB2U Vindicator, by Jack McKillop

11-20-2006, 05:13 AM	#615
rochie Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: billingham nr middlesbrough uk Posts: 3,032	agreed it might have been a great bomber (the he-177) with a normal engine layout, but was seen as twin engined and hitler insisted it be capable of dive bombing

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