Yak-3 or Yak-9?

[cheddar cheese]

Been wondering this for a while now...which was better out of the Yak-3 and the Yak-9?

[delcyros]

I would choose the nimble Yak-3.
The Yak-9 is much heavier, the air-superiority fighter with long range.
Original development shows that the Yak-3 origins in the light Yak-1 while the heavier Yak-9 origins in the Yak-7.

[Nonskimmer]

I thought the Yak-9 was essentially a high altitude version of the Yak-3.

[FLYBOYJ]

I think it's almost like comparing a Spitfire to a Mustang - Ruskie Style!

[Soren]

The Yak9 was in some ways superior, for one it had a bigger wing-area, meaning better turn rate.

The Yak3's wing-area was only 14.35 sq.m !

[blackeagle_I]

Originally Posted by Nonskimmer

I thought the Yak-9 was essentially a high altitude version of the Yak-3.

I think there was no high altitude Yak or La fighters in VVS.

Originally Posted by Soren

The Yak9 was in some ways superior, for one it had a bigger wing-area, meaning better turn rate.

The Yak3's wing-area was only 14.35 sq.m !

No, because the Yak-9 was heavier and it had a higher proportion of weight in the wings.

The Yak-9 almost became the more nimble of the two with the Yak-9U all metal design, but then they decided to spend the weight savings on increased fuel capacity and armor.

In general, I'd say the Yak-3 with the VK107 engine was quite a plane - 447 mph and almost 5K/min climb! But only about 100 saw service in WWII.

=S=

Lunatic

[Soren]

Originally Posted by RG_Lunatic

No, because the Yak-9 was heavier and it had a higher proportion of weight in the wings.

The Yak-9 almost became the more nimble of the two with the Yak-9U all metal design, but then they decided to spend the weight savings on increased fuel capacity and armor.

In general, I'd say the Yak-3 with the VK107 engine was quite a plane - 447 mph and almost 5K/min climb! But only about 100 saw service in WWII.

=S=

Lunatic

RG generally the Yak-9 had lower Wing-loading, and thats a fact !

Yak-9T Wing area: 17.15 sq.m / weight = 176.3 kg/sq.m

Yak-3P Wing area: 14.85 sq.m / weight = 181.2 kg/sq.m

The only thing that gives the Yak-3 a good turn rate is its superior power-loading.

However the Yak-9 would normally turn slightly better.

Originally Posted by Soren

RG generally the Yak-9 had lower Wing-loading, and thats a fact !

Yak-9T Wing area: 17.15 sq.m / weight = 176.3 kg/sq.m

Yak-3P Wing area: 14.85 sq.m / weight = 181.2 kg/sq.m

The only thing that gives the Yak-3 a good turn rate is its superior power-loading.

However the Yak-9 would normally turn slightly better.

Now why did you choose the Yak-3P I wonder? Could it be that 3 x B20 20mm and armor of this very late-war variant make it heavy?

I sure come out with different wingloading figures than you do:

Yak-3:

Empty weight = 2,105 kg / 14.85 sq.m = 141.75 kg/sq.m
Max loaded wt. = 2,550 kg / 14.85 sq.m = 171.71 kg/sq.m

Both figures are lower than that you've given for the Yak-9.

=S=

Lunatic

[Soren]

Originally Posted by RG_Lunatic

Now why did you choose the Yak-3P I wonder? Could it be that 3 x B20 20mm and armor of this very late-war variant make it heavy?

I sure come out with different wingloading figures than you do:

Yak-3:

Empty weight = 2,105 kg / 14.85 sq.m = 141.75 kg/sq.m
Max loaded wt. = 2,550 kg / 14.85 sq.m = 171.71 kg/sq.m

Both figures are lower than that you've given for the Yak-9.

=S=

Lunatic

*Sigh*............ Yak-3 or Yak-3P whats the BIG difference ? Weight isnt !

Yak-3 Empty weight: 2,123 kg / 14.85 sq.m = 142.96 kg/sq.m

Yak-9T Empty weight: 2,289 kg / 17.15 sq.m = 133.46 kg/sq.m

Yak-3 Max takeoff weight: 2,692 kg / 14.85 sq.m = 181.27 kg/sq.m

Yak-9T Max takeoff weight: 3025 kg / 17.15 sq.m = 176.3 kg/sq.m

Now you see ?!

Here are the weighs I've come up with for the Yak's:

Yak-3: 2105 kg empty, 2550 kg takeoff, 2659 kg max overload.

Yak-9: 2770kg empty, 3080 kg takeoff.

Yak-9P (all metal): 2716 kg empty, 3098 takeoff, 3395 kg overload.

Emannual Gustin is usually a pretty good source:

http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevo.../YAK3YA00.html (E. Gustin)
http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevo.../YAK9YAKO.html (E. Gustin)

If you care to dispute his figures, we can contact him and find the sources.

Below are some more sites supporting these weights.

http://www.warbirdalley.com/yak9.htm
http://www.ctrl-c.liu.se/misc/ram/yak-3.html
http://www.chuckhawks.com/yak-9.htm

[delcyros]

Yakolevs book rates the take off weight of the Yak-3 (1944) with 2652 kg and the Yak-9U (late 1944)with 3104 kg (-sorry no cyrrillic here: A.C. YKOBLEB,ZELb )I(HSNH (Moscow 1976), page 358.) He also says that the Yak-3 was a more agile fighter than the Yak-9 (which could be used for more purposes, thanks to it´s longer range). The ultimate Yak-9 was probably the Yak-9U with VK-107 engine, the original Yak-9 or Yak-9D with VK-105 engine are not that impressive at all.
I am convinced that the Yak-3 has a better roll rate, too.

[Soren]

Originally Posted by RG_Lunatic

Here are the weighs I've come up with for the Yak's:

Yak-3: 2105 kg empty, 2550 kg takeoff, 2659 kg max overload.

Yak-9: 2770kg empty, 3080 kg takeoff.

Yak-9P (all metal): 2716 kg empty, 3098 takeoff, 3395 kg overload.

Emannual Gustin is usually a pretty good source:

http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevo.../YAK3YA00.html (E. Gustin)
http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevo.../YAK9YAKO.html (E. Gustin)

If you care to dispute his figures, we can contact him and find the sources.

Below are some more sites supporting these weights.

http://www.warbirdalley.com/yak9.htm
http://www.ctrl-c.liu.se/misc/ram/yak-3.html
http://www.chuckhawks.com/yak-9.htm

RG his stats aint for the Yak-9T, and usually "Yakovlev's Piston-Engined Fighters" by Yefim Gordon and Dmitriy Khazanov is a good source.

The Yak-9T weighes 2,289 kg empty, and 3,025 kg with max load.

Also why did you have to pick the heaviest Yak-9 ?

Even the late war Yak-9UT weighes no more than 2,550 kg Empty, and with max load it weighes 3,260 kg.

[mosquitoman]

What's the difference in looks because thye must be very similar coming from the same design bureau

Only a few Yak-9UT's saw service. The Yak-9T or Yak-9 are the proper planes to compare. I gave the weights of the standard Yak-9 and the final (mostly metal) Yak-9P.

So far, every source says the Yak-3 was the more agile plane.

=S=

Lunatic