B239, experten etc - Aircraft of World War II

snac · 11-04-2009, 06:55 AM

Hi
I,ve been interested in aircraft since I was 5-6yrs old. I,m now 52. mainly WW1&2 types, but a smattering of other stuff too. I have ammassed a reasonable library over the years, and I used to make models in my youth, dont have time these days. My father was a navigator in Lancasters during the latter stages of WW2, and spent some time as a guest of the Reich having bailed out over France.
I wondered whether others have tried piloting aircraft through computer simulations. Specifically the Russian coded Il 2 programme, and its add ons, and how accurately these represent the relative performances of the aircraft themselves. Certainly the programmers had input from several ex WW2 pilots, and there are several testimonies to the programme from them.
I've always been interested in the obvious contrast between what are considered aces from one combattant to another, and why German Japanese and Finnish pilots seemed to be far more deadly than their allied counterparts. Obviously the allied tour of duty system had a major hand in this, but even so, it is striking that the worlds top 100 scorers, would ALL be Germans. (US, UK & commonwealth both c40, USSR c60).
Using the computerised flight simulation, its possible to fly in, and attack bombers and fighters of most of the major combattants. One of the most interesting aircraft, is the Brewster F2A/Buffalo/B239. derided by almost everyone except the Finns, many of whose high scorers (Jutelainen and Wind certainly) scored multiple victories flying it. Known as "The Sky Pearl" by them, the simulation of the B239 shows that it handles well, has good warning pre-stall, and if stalled doesnt spin aggressively. Its short on a little pace, but in a turning fight is perfectly capable against I15, I16, Mig 3, Lagg 3 and Yak 3. Does anyone have any experience with this, and its relative accuracy between aircraft. (ps landing the various incarnations of Bf 109 is hyper tricky, and usually involves leaving the undercarriage legs some way down the runway.)

diddyriddick · 11-04-2009, 12:36 PM

Welcome aboard, Sir! Where was your father a guest of Herr Schicklegrueber? I had kin in Stalag Luft I.

Njaco · 11-04-2009, 03:11 PM

Welcme aboard snac!

Check out our gaming section for a threads dedicated to IL-2 and all the stuff with it.

Theres also some threads about the Buffalo/B239 in other sectons including a thread about the latest one pulled out of a lake.

Airframes · 11-04-2009, 03:27 PM

Hello and welcome from 'up north'.

Wayne Little · 11-05-2009, 06:28 AM

G'day mate, welcome!

snac · 11-05-2009, 10:34 AM

Diddy
I dont know where he was held. He has been gone for 20 odd years now, and didnt talk about it much. I remember him saying that the bomber was hit by flak, and the port outer engine stopped, but that they were able to fly onwards across france, until the port inner started to smoke. He said he and the bombardier climbed over the central wing spar to the back of the aircraft where their paracutes were kept, and they then jumped out. he said the only training they did was to jump off a table and roll on the floor, and he was surprised when the paracute almost dislocated his shoulders. When he got down he said that he met a frenchman and told him he was RAF aircrew...He disapppeared and then reappeared with a german soldier, who chucked him in the back of a truck. when they had rounded up the others from the bomber, a feldwebel appeared and asked which one was the navigator. the others pointed at him, and the germans roughed him up and took his watch. (apparently the navigators had high quality watches issued to do star shot navigation with). He said the soldiers took all their flight gearto sell on the balck market, and left them in longjohns.

vikingBerserker · 11-05-2009, 04:15 PM

Welcome aboard snac, thanks for sharing your father's stories.

wheelsup_cavu · 11-05-2009, 08:55 PM

Welcome to the forum.

Thanks for telling us about your father.

Wheels

Crimea_River · 11-05-2009, 09:30 PM

Welcome snac. Interesting nick!

I've played IL-2 since it first came out. At first it was to the extent that I had to tear myself away from the sim to eat and sleep. Now only sporadically. The topics you bring up have been discussed/argued/debated ad nauseum here:

IL2 Maddox General Discussion - Forum Powered by Eve Community

Generally a good bunch of guys there. Get yourself registered and browse around.

I personally attribute the higher German numbers to a combination of several factors: long tours of duty, initial technological/tactical superiority, availability of victims, etc. Some argue they mixed claims with "points". Others say they overclaimed but this was common on all sides. It's a hot topic. Have fun!

11-04-2009, 06:55 AM	#1
snac Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: luton Posts: 3	B239, experten etc Hi I,ve been interested in aircraft since I was 5-6yrs old. I,m now 52. mainly WW1&2 types, but a smattering of other stuff too. I have ammassed a reasonable library over the years, and I used to make models in my youth, dont have time these days. My father was a navigator in Lancasters during the latter stages of WW2, and spent some time as a guest of the Reich having bailed out over France. I wondered whether others have tried piloting aircraft through computer simulations. Specifically the Russian coded Il 2 programme, and its add ons, and how accurately these represent the relative performances of the aircraft themselves. Certainly the programmers had input from several ex WW2 pilots, and there are several testimonies to the programme from them. I've always been interested in the obvious contrast between what are considered aces from one combattant to another, and why German Japanese and Finnish pilots seemed to be far more deadly than their allied counterparts. Obviously the allied tour of duty system had a major hand in this, but even so, it is striking that the worlds top 100 scorers, would ALL be Germans. (US, UK & commonwealth both c40, USSR c60). Using the computerised flight simulation, its possible to fly in, and attack bombers and fighters of most of the major combattants. One of the most interesting aircraft, is the Brewster F2A/Buffalo/B239. derided by almost everyone except the Finns, many of whose high scorers (Jutelainen and Wind certainly) scored multiple victories flying it. Known as "The Sky Pearl" by them, the simulation of the B239 shows that it handles well, has good warning pre-stall, and if stalled doesnt spin aggressively. Its short on a little pace, but in a turning fight is perfectly capable against I15, I16, Mig 3, Lagg 3 and Yak 3. Does anyone have any experience with this, and its relative accuracy between aircraft. (ps landing the various incarnations of Bf 109 is hyper tricky, and usually involves leaving the undercarriage legs some way down the runway.)

11-04-2009, 12:36 PM	#2
diddyriddick Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Hamlet, NC, US Posts: 720	Welcome aboard, Sir! Where was your father a guest of Herr Schicklegrueber? I had kin in Stalag Luft I. __________________ _____ Diddy

11-04-2009, 03:11 PM	#3
Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: South Jersey, United States Posts: 10,228	Welcme aboard snac! Check out our gaming section for a threads dedicated to IL-2 and all the stuff with it. Theres also some threads about the Buffalo/B239 in other sectons including a thread about the latest one pulled out of a lake. __________________ "If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it's English, thank a soldier!" http://www.njcacoa.org/

11-04-2009, 03:27 PM	#4
Airframes Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 9,030	Hello and welcome from 'up north'. __________________

11-05-2009, 06:28 AM	#5
Wayne Little Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Adelaide Sth. Aust. Posts: 12,487	G'day mate, welcome! __________________

11-05-2009, 10:34 AM	#6
snac Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: luton Posts: 3	Diddy I dont know where he was held. He has been gone for 20 odd years now, and didnt talk about it much. I remember him saying that the bomber was hit by flak, and the port outer engine stopped, but that they were able to fly onwards across france, until the port inner started to smoke. He said he and the bombardier climbed over the central wing spar to the back of the aircraft where their paracutes were kept, and they then jumped out. he said the only training they did was to jump off a table and roll on the floor, and he was surprised when the paracute almost dislocated his shoulders. When he got down he said that he met a frenchman and told him he was RAF aircrew...He disapppeared and then reappeared with a german soldier, who chucked him in the back of a truck. when they had rounded up the others from the bomber, a feldwebel appeared and asked which one was the navigator. the others pointed at him, and the germans roughed him up and took his watch. (apparently the navigators had high quality watches issued to do star shot navigation with). He said the soldiers took all their flight gearto sell on the balck market, and left them in longjohns.

11-05-2009, 04:15 PM	#7
vikingBerserker Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 3,722	Welcome aboard snac, thanks for sharing your father's stories. __________________ "Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it" "Those who dwell in the past, condemn the future"

11-05-2009, 08:55 PM	#8
wheelsup_cavu Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Corona, California Posts: 1,534	Welcome to the forum. Thanks for telling us about your father. Wheels __________________ Cheers Wheelsup_cavu Wheels's Photos - Time lapse build of an F/A-18 Super Hornet - Lock N' Load

11-05-2009, 09:30 PM	#9
Crimea_River Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Calgary Posts: 372	Welcome snac. Interesting nick! I've played IL-2 since it first came out. At first it was to the extent that I had to tear myself away from the sim to eat and sleep. Now only sporadically. The topics you bring up have been discussed/argued/debated ad nauseum here: IL2 Maddox General Discussion - Forum Powered by Eve Community Generally a good bunch of guys there. Get yourself registered and browse around. I personally attribute the higher German numbers to a combination of several factors: long tours of duty, initial technological/tactical superiority, availability of victims, etc. Some argue they mixed claims with "points". Others say they overclaimed but this was common on all sides. It's a hot topic. Have fun!

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