Heinz Bar's Fw 190A-7 Rot 23 - Aircraft of World War II

Njaco · 10-15-2008, 12:30 PM

For the past 2 years I've been working on and off with a 1/48 Fw 190 of Major Heinz Bar's. I just read that he had a reserve Fw 190A-7 "Rot 23" that had an enlarged wooden propellor. Anybody have any more info as I may now have to change a few things. Thanks.

Erich · 10-15-2008, 12:37 PM

he flew a couple of A-7's and A-8's Njaco. side note the man was a distant relative on my mothers side of the fence. He was born only 20 miles from where my relatives still live in the Pfalz-land.

you have profile(s) of Röte 23 ? there seems to be only photos of one bird though as far as I am aware.

E ~

Njaco · 10-15-2008, 01:23 PM

Thanks Eric. Here is what I found....

Fw 190 Aces of the Western Front by John Weal. pg 55

".....Bar sprinted to his reserve machine - 'Red 23', an Fw 190A-7 which was fitted with a special large diameter wooden propellor - and quickly took off accompanied by his regular wingman....."

I just making sure I didn't mess anything up. Weal does have a profile of 23 on pg 59.

Njaco · 10-15-2008, 01:47 PM

Heres a profile I found.....

Erich · 10-15-2008, 02:03 PM

I would discount almost everything that Weal has to offer Njaco, the day time offers from osprey are terrible both in text and profiles, not sure if the wooden prop is a myth or not for the A-7, would believe it for an A-8 and A-9. Baer (Bär) was a hot pilot probably the best in my opinion so he could feasibly have whatever he wanted as to the way of custom fittings.

try eagle-editions.com and go to decals, there might be red 23 or 13 somewhere in their many Fw 190 sheets

rochie · 10-15-2008, 02:25 PM

i've got this njaco if its any help from luftwaffe fighter aircraft in profile

Erich · 10-15-2008, 02:27 PM

Njaco the above profile is not correct. one thing the undercowling is not red most likely yellow. it should also have a wide red defense Reich band on the fuselage, it also has a white spiral on the prop. I do not beleive it has a white rjdder or scoreboard as shown at all. red 23 did have a wooden prop and he did have a reserve machine. the profile is actually an assumption and has taken the pics of sorts of red 23 and red 13 and put them together. REd 23 is not a 5th staffel crate but a Gruppenstab II./JG 1 unit

now for red 13 which had a white spiral on the prop as well, red second gruppe bar over a wide red defense band. the balkenkreuz is outlined in black and the rudder is white with his victory tally of 200, werke nummer is 431 007, there appears to be a yellow undercowling ID marking as well. this is also an A-7 crate. He flew this as Kommandeur of II./JG 1 reason for the red numeral.

Both crates flown in April of 1944 by this ace.

~ another side notation possibly of interest; Heinz received a captured leather bomber crew jacket which he altered with LW insignia - shoulder boards and loved wearing it as he flew missions.

E ~

phas3e · 10-15-2008, 03:25 PM

Im sure theres a photo of it too.

I had around here somewhere...

Lucky13 · 10-15-2008, 03:52 PM

Great info Erich!

Lucky13 · 10-15-2008, 04:23 PM

Just looking at the Sky Models decals that I have. it shows Bar's 190 as above with red bar and defence band. #431007 and it has the more square style of 13, it doesn't show any yellow undercowling though, but white spiral on the spinner. Attach to 2/JG 1, Darmstadt 1945 says the text....

Erich · 10-15-2008, 04:26 PM

I have pics of both crates. red 21 in 1945 with 2./JG 1 ? very doubtful most likely both red numbered units were shot down with other pilots at the helm during the latter stages of the war. some of the decal outfits sure don't do their homework

Airframes · 10-15-2008, 07:19 PM

It might not be much help to you, Njaco, but I think this was one of the aircraft included in the old Monogram1/48th kit from the late '60's(!) If so, believe it or not, I might still have the decals! They'll be no where near today's quality, I would think, but if they're of any use to you, you're welcome to them.
Terry.

Njaco · 10-15-2008, 10:30 PM

Terry, thats the exact kit I'm doing. The decals I have are ok - have a lot of aftermarket stuff.

My question I guess is how much larger are the blades than what comes in the kit? Can it be done? How?

Erich, thankx for the heads up on Weal. I thought his stuff was pretty good. And I'm aware that profile is bad. It was the only one I could find that I couldn't scan.

Catch22 · 10-15-2008, 11:27 PM

I have the Hasegawa kit decals lying around, but I'm not sure if they would be accurate. I don't know if you'd be able to tell me without seeing them. Unfortunately they're 1/32 Njaco.

Airframes · 10-15-2008, 11:53 PM

I can only think of two possible ways of doing the prop blades. Either try to adapt ones from a 190D, or, modify one kit blade, say with 'Milliput' or similar, or carve one(!), then cast some in resin from the 'master'.
The only other alternative is to hunt around for suitable blades from other aircraft. Not perhaps the best example, but maybe a Typhoon, and modify to suit. If it was 1/32nd, there'd be a bit more latitude, because of thicknes etc.
I'll have a look in my spares box for you, but I'm doubtful! Wait, just remembered! I've got a full set of 1/48th Mosquito 'paddle' blades. Maybe, with reshaping, you could get the right profile/chord? Check the size/length you need, and I'll measure the blades I have for you. might not be until Friday though.
Terry.

10-15-2008, 12:30 PM	#1
Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: South Jersey, United States Posts: 10,237	Heinz Bar's Fw 190A-7 Rot 23 For the past 2 years I've been working on and off with a 1/48 Fw 190 of Major Heinz Bar's. I just read that he had a reserve Fw 190A-7 "Rot 23" that had an enlarged wooden propellor. Anybody have any more info as I may now have to change a few things. Thanks. __________________ "If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it's English, thank a soldier!" http://www.njcacoa.org/

10-15-2008, 01:23 PM	#3
Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: South Jersey, United States Posts: 10,237	Thanks Eric. Here is what I found.... Fw 190 Aces of the Western Front by John Weal. pg 55 ".....Bar sprinted to his reserve machine - 'Red 23', an Fw 190A-7 which was fitted with a special large diameter wooden propellor - and quickly took off accompanied by his regular wingman....." I just making sure I didn't mess anything up. Weal does have a profile of 23 on pg 59. __________________ "If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it's English, thank a soldier!" http://www.njcacoa.org/

10-15-2008, 03:52 PM	#9
Lucky13 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: A Swede living in Glasgow, Scotland Posts: 15,144	Great info Erich! __________________ JAN "Felicis Tredecim" "I´m going back to the front to relax" "THE BLACK CATS FLIES TONIGHT" "Find your enemy and shoot him down - everything else is unimportant!" "When you're out of F-8's... You're out of fighters!"

10-15-2008, 04:23 PM	#10
Lucky13 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: A Swede living in Glasgow, Scotland Posts: 15,144	Just looking at the Sky Models decals that I have. it shows Bar's 190 as above with red bar and defence band. #431007 and it has the more square style of 13, it doesn't show any yellow undercowling though, but white spiral on the spinner. Attach to 2/JG 1, Darmstadt 1945 says the text.... __________________ JAN "Felicis Tredecim" "I´m going back to the front to relax" "THE BLACK CATS FLIES TONIGHT" "Find your enemy and shoot him down - everything else is unimportant!" "When you're out of F-8's... You're out of fighters!"

10-15-2008, 11:27 PM	#14
Catch22 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Posts: 4,293	I have the Hasegawa kit decals lying around, but I'm not sure if they would be accurate. I don't know if you'd be able to tell me without seeing them. Unfortunately they're 1/32 Njaco. __________________

10-15-2008, 12:37 PM	#2
Erich the old Sage Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere Posts: 10,775	he flew a couple of A-7's and A-8's Njaco. side note the man was a distant relative on my mothers side of the fence. He was born only 20 miles from where my relatives still live in the Pfalz-land. you have profile(s) of Röte 23 ? there seems to be only photos of one bird though as far as I am aware. E ~

10-15-2008, 02:03 PM	#5
Erich the old Sage Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere Posts: 10,775	I would discount almost everything that Weal has to offer Njaco, the day time offers from osprey are terrible both in text and profiles, not sure if the wooden prop is a myth or not for the A-7, would believe it for an A-8 and A-9. Baer (Bär) was a hot pilot probably the best in my opinion so he could feasibly have whatever he wanted as to the way of custom fittings. try eagle-editions.com and go to decals, there might be red 23 or 13 somewhere in their many Fw 190 sheets

10-15-2008, 02:27 PM	#7
Erich the old Sage Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere Posts: 10,775	Njaco the above profile is not correct. one thing the undercowling is not red most likely yellow. it should also have a wide red defense Reich band on the fuselage, it also has a white spiral on the prop. I do not beleive it has a white rjdder or scoreboard as shown at all. red 23 did have a wooden prop and he did have a reserve machine. the profile is actually an assumption and has taken the pics of sorts of red 23 and red 13 and put them together. REd 23 is not a 5th staffel crate but a Gruppenstab II./JG 1 unit now for red 13 which had a white spiral on the prop as well, red second gruppe bar over a wide red defense band. the balkenkreuz is outlined in black and the rudder is white with his victory tally of 200, werke nummer is 431 007, there appears to be a yellow undercowling ID marking as well. this is also an A-7 crate. He flew this as Kommandeur of II./JG 1 reason for the red numeral. Both crates flown in April of 1944 by this ace. ~ another side notation possibly of interest; Heinz received a captured leather bomber crew jacket which he altered with LW insignia - shoulder boards and loved wearing it as he flew missions. E ~

10-15-2008, 03:25 PM	#8
phas3e Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 87	Im sure theres a photo of it too. I had around here somewhere...

10-15-2008, 04:26 PM	#11
Erich the old Sage Join Date: May 2004 Location: Platonic Sphere Posts: 10,775	I have pics of both crates. red 21 in 1945 with 2./JG 1 ? very doubtful most likely both red numbered units were shot down with other pilots at the helm during the latter stages of the war. some of the decal outfits sure don't do their homework

10-15-2008, 07:19 PM	#12
Airframes Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 9,066	It might not be much help to you, Njaco, but I think this was one of the aircraft included in the old Monogram1/48th kit from the late '60's(!) If so, believe it or not, I might still have the decals! They'll be no where near today's quality, I would think, but if they're of any use to you, you're welcome to them. Terry.

10-15-2008, 11:53 PM	#15
Airframes Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 9,066	I can only think of two possible ways of doing the prop blades. Either try to adapt ones from a 190D, or, modify one kit blade, say with 'Milliput' or similar, or carve one(!), then cast some in resin from the 'master'. The only other alternative is to hunt around for suitable blades from other aircraft. Not perhaps the best example, but maybe a Typhoon, and modify to suit. If it was 1/32nd, there'd be a bit more latitude, because of thicknes etc. I'll have a look in my spares box for you, but I'm doubtful! Wait, just remembered! I've got a full set of 1/48th Mosquito 'paddle' blades. Maybe, with reshaping, you could get the right profile/chord? Check the size/length you need, and I'll measure the blades I have for you. might not be until Friday though. Terry.

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