WW2- B17

jhor9 · 06-29-2006, 09:10 AM

If anyone has any questions about the B17, I will try to answer

syscom3 · 06-29-2006, 09:59 AM

Hi again JHor.

I was pondering this question for you for some time.

Since you were in the 15th AF, did you have any interactions with the that all black fighter unit, the 332nd FG? How did you and your colleaugues feel about them?

timshatz · 06-29-2006, 10:15 AM

Hi Jhor,

Thanks for throwing yourself out there. A couple of questions come to mind:
1. Did you fly the Black Thursday Raid?
2. Did you fly the E and F models or was the G out by then? If you flew more than one of the above, what was the difference to you while flying them?
3. What did you guys think about the 17 in comparison to aircraft like the Lancaster or the Liberator? Around the bar, which one had the rep for being the fastest and which had the rep for being the one that survived?
4. I've heard the "Coffin Corner" was the worst place to be in a combat box. Where were other spots that weren't considered safe? Where was the best place to be in a box? When a box was tight, how much space was between bombers?
5. Did the crews think the gunners made an impact on the opposing fighters? Did the gunners get better by much as they spent more time flying (common sense says they would but I thought I'd ask)?

bomber · 09-05-2006, 06:35 AM

I'm in the midle of modeling the B17 for use within Target4Today..

I have the plans for the 'G' version, some images of the 'D' version but can you tell me or point me to an internet resourse that'd clearly show the differences with regards the other versions ?

Can I also ask which crew position you flew in ?

Regards

Simon

Pisis · 09-16-2006, 02:22 PM

I have no idea what this has to do with the EAW...

jhor9 · 10-08-2006, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by syscom3

Hi again JHor.

I was pondering this question for you for some time.

Since you were in the 15th AF, did you have any interactions with the that all black fighter unit, the 332nd FG? How did you and your colleaugues feel about them?

The black fighter group didn't arrive in my theater until after I finished my tour
I never saw P51s during my tour
The black group had a top reputation. Bomber groups requested them as escorts

jhor9 · 10-08-2006, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timshatz

Hi Jhor,

Thanks for throwing yourself out there. A couple of questions come to mind:
1. Did you fly the Black Thursday Raid?
2. Did you fly the E and F models or was the G out by then? If you flew more than one of the above, what was the difference to you while flying them?
3. What did you guys think about the 17 in comparison to aircraft like the Lancaster or the Liberator? Around the bar, which one had the rep for being the fastest and which had the rep for being the one that survived?
4. I've heard the "Coffin Corner" was the worst place to be in a combat box. Where were other spots that weren't considered safe? Where was the best place to be in a box? When a box was tight, how much space was between bombers?
5. Did the crews think the gunners made an impact on the opposing fighters? Did the gunners get better by much as they spent more time flying (common sense says they would but I thought I'd ask)?

1 The black Thursday raid was flown by the 8th AF, I was in the 12-15th AF
2 I flew F and Gs.. The Gs had chin turrets also they were slightly slower then Fs
3 I don't know anything about the lanc. In combat I'd take B17 over the B24 anytime. The 24s couldn;t fly in as tight a formation as the 17
4 When I flew we didn;t have combat boxes. Sqns in a group were generally flown at slightly different altitudes.. I would say that tail end Charlie was a vulnerable spot
5 Gunners did make an impact. However I believe that more planes were downed by flak the by fighters

jhor9 · 10-08-2006, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bomber

I'm in the midle of modeling the B17 for use within Target4Today..

I have the plans for the 'G' version, some images of the 'D' version but can you tell me or point me to an internet resourse that'd clearly show the differences with regards the other versions ?

Can I also ask which crew position you flew in ?

Regards

Simon

I can't answer as to resources, the B,C and D models did not have the dorsal fin as the E, F and Gs. The G had chin turrets

I was 1st pilot, after flying several missions as copilot, to get combat experirnce

bomber · 10-09-2006, 06:21 AM

Thanks for you reply jhor9..

I've since found all the information I need on the B17 variations and so will model from the D version onwards...

teammaico · 12-22-2007, 12:24 PM

jhor9,
I am attaching 2 photos you might find pretty cool. But, I have a question for you. My dad was hurt in shoot down of his air craft. Here is what he said to me as a kid and I am trying to figure out what he was doing and how he got hurt.
He told me one of the Left side engines had been shot out by flak and he ducked down out of the top turret to feather the props when a second flak shell exploded hitting the left side of his face and knocking him out of the turret. How do you feather the props and where are the switches or knobs or whatever you touch to feather the props? Also can you tell me how the engines are numbered 1 2 3 4, where are they? I don't know if you have seen these photos or I cannot remember seeing you respond.
Thanks,
Jim

evangilder · 12-22-2007, 12:58 PM

Engines 1, 2, 3 and 4 are numbered from left to right from the pilots perspective when sitting in the cockpit. So, if you are in the pilot's seat engine 1 would be the outboard engine on the port, or left side wing.

seesul · 12-23-2007, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhor9

If anyone has any questions about the B17, I will try to answer

hello Jules,

I know you from the armyairforces.com so I know you flew with 99thBG and made 50 missions. So first I have to say you have my full respect!
So I have few questions:

1) I believe you have a lot of pictures taken during WW2, could you share some of them with us?
2) Where was your BG stationed in Italy near Foggia? Perhabs Amendola?
3) Technical question- in the 2ndBG history book ''Defenders of Liberty'', on page # 263 there´s written:''when we took off from the field, we were so heavilly loaded and the field was so short that we had to use flaps''.
Also does it mean, that under normal conditions you never used them? And could you explain to me the difference between landing an take off flaps? Only the angle of their inclination?

Have a nice Holiday Jules!

Dale Helgren · 02-20-2008, 02:28 PM

I am looking at a painting of Flatbush Floogie as I sit at my desk. It's the painting by John Gribbin "Return from Doepham Green" April 9th, 1944. My Dad was in the 728th Squadron of the 452nd and was on that mission with Flatbush Floogie. Other than the the Brux mission where he was shot down...this was the worst. According to him they got creamed by enemy fighters over Farmarn Island just before the Denmark coast...only a few returned to base....Col. Oxride was lost on this mission also. It was a bad Easter Sunday.

Dale

timshatz · 02-20-2008, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhor9

1 The black Thursday raid was flown by the 8th AF, I was in the 12-15th AF
2 I flew F and Gs.. The Gs had chin turrets also they were slightly slower then Fs
3 I don't know anything about the lanc. In combat I'd take B17 over the B24 anytime. The 24s couldn;t fly in as tight a formation as the 17
4 When I flew we didn;t have combat boxes. Sqns in a group were generally flown at slightly different altitudes.. I would say that tail end Charlie was a vulnerable spot
5 Gunners did make an impact. However I believe that more planes were downed by flak the by fighters

A very, very belated thanks for the answers and your service.

seesul · 04-15-2008, 01:24 AM

For those they are interested:
Horowitz, Jules - Brightcove