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Thread: Terminology and engine data

  1. #31
    Creator of Interesting Threads tomo pauk's Avatar
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    We still have quite work to accomplish in order to equal your contribution here

    Quote Originally Posted by sibboh View Post
    @tomo pauk, do you speak italian?
    I can manage some texts, but I guess your's English is better than my Italian. Of course, I'll appreciate any tables, charts and articles you (or anybody else) post here, no matter what language the stuff is.

    added: a discussion about the Issota-Fraschini engines (can be translated):
    http://it.cultura.storia.militare.na...otta-fraschini
    BTW, English-language Wikipedia would want us to believe that IS Zeta was a V-12 engine



    added 2: many charts about early war engines (the .rar file works):
    http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/avi...tml#post974780 (Engine power curves.)
    Last edited by tomo pauk; 04-14-2013 at 02:23 PM.

  2. #32
    Member sibboh's Avatar
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    IF Zeta was a 24 X cylinder engine, 8 x 4 cylinder. I know only that it was a double 12v Gamma engine. Gamma engine was a 12V engine. Bore was 125 mm. Stroke was 130 mm. Displacement was 19,14 L.
    Zeta has probably a 38,28 L displacement. Continuous outupt was 1250 cv.
    The link is a data collection. But no new data. I think there is an ignorance about engines in Italy. And italian aircraft literature follows this trend... I like to see the IF Assi L.121 RC40 manual engine. But it's very difficult!

  3. #33
    Member sibboh's Avatar
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    Very interesting charts! Exspecially Merlin VIII, X and XII.

  4. #34
    Creator of Interesting Threads tomo pauk's Avatar
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    Agreed pretty much about what you say.

  5. #35
    Member sibboh's Avatar
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    6 cylinders x 4 row = 24 cylinders
    not 8 x 4!!!!!! Sorry!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by sibboh View Post
    IF Zeta was a 24 X cylinder engine, 8 x 4 cylinder. I know only that it was a double 12v Gamma engine. Gamma engine was a 12V engine. Bore was 125 mm. Stroke was 130 mm. Displacement was 19,14 L.
    Zeta has probably a 38,28 L displacement. Continuous outupt was 1250 cv.
    The link is a data collection. But no new data. I think there is an ignorance about engines in Italy. And italian aircraft literature follows this trend... I like to see the IF Assi L.121 RC40 manual engine. But it's very difficult!

  6. #36
    Member sibboh's Avatar
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    This is the Piaggio P.XII RC35 manual

    -manuale-caratteristiche-motore-piaggio-pxii-rc35-1939-2a-serie-pdf

  7. #37
    Member sibboh's Avatar
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    Unfortunately the quality is low

    -diagramma-potenza-piaggio-xii-rc35-jpg

  8. #38
    Creator of Interesting Threads tomo pauk's Avatar
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    Great stuff, the power graph can be opened in separate tab, for higher resolution.

    added: data about late war variants of the BMW-801:

    http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/avi...ues-34279.html
    Last edited by tomo pauk; 04-17-2013 at 10:17 AM.

  9. #39
    Creator of Interesting Threads tomo pauk's Avatar
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    Table and chart for the R-2800-30W. Note the slight mismatch between them in military powers. And some after-cooling effect of the ADI, judging by WER and military critical altitudes?

    -30w-jpg

    -ch30w-jpg

    R-2800-34W, (unfortunately, I don't have values for the WER):

    -chart-2800-34w-jpg

    70 in Hg was available in high gear, at at least 10kft:

    -table-2800-34w-jpg
    Last edited by tomo pauk; 04-17-2013 at 05:42 PM.

  10. #40
    Member sibboh's Avatar
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    The term "combat" refers to the WER?

  11. #41
    Creator of Interesting Threads tomo pauk's Avatar
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    Yes. The "W" in the engine name denotes the presence of the ADI system (water-methanol injection in P&W engines). When the system is engaged, the engine can operate in higher boost, in WER (USN terminology; USAF was using 'WER wet' teminology?), or 'Combat' setting.

    added: seems like the USAF did not used the term 'WER wet' much (not at all?), especially if only way of achieving WER was the use of ADI.
    Last edited by tomo pauk; 04-18-2013 at 08:05 AM.

  12. #42
    Member sibboh's Avatar
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    The last power plant chart is very interesting. The normal rated - maximum continuous was unlimited if the cylinder head temperature was under 232C. Limited to 1 hour if the temperature was 260C.
    Is it possible to find R-2800-1 to -7 power charts?

  13. #43
    Creator of Interesting Threads tomo pauk's Avatar
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    I've never seen the early R-2800 power charts, maybe you might check at the people at AEHS about those? The -2, -4, and -6 should be the USN variants, and the -4 (actually, the XR-2800-4) should be the one that was powering the XF4U, ie. the Corsair prototype. I doubt those early engines ever flew in combat units. The -4 belonged to the A series R-2800s, data from US hundred thousands:
    TO: 1850 HP/2600 rpm
    military: 1850/2600 at 2700 ft
    1500/2600 at 14000 ft
    normal (max cont): 1500/2400 at 7500 ft
    1450/2400 at 13000 ft

    The -1, -3, -5 and -7 should be the USAF engines. The single stage -1 was to power the production variant of the (X)P-44, however that plane never passed 'paper' stage (despite what Wikipedia says about the speed of 400+ mph etc). The two stage -3, a variant of the -1 also never flew in service airplane. The -5 was powering the early incarnations of the B-26. The -7 was to be the turbo version of the -5, again it's doubtful that it ever flew.
    All of those A series R-2800s are listed in that table about the US aero engines.

  14. #44
    Member sibboh's Avatar
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    Infact i read about -1 -3 -5 -7 in US aero engines. And i hope almost a -5 variant power chart.
    About -4 variant. Where did you find the power output? Are there the manifold pressures?

  15. #45
    Creator of Interesting Threads tomo pauk's Avatar
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    The data is from the book "America's hundred-thousand" by Francis H. Dean, and I fully recommend it.
    Unfortunately, the manifold pressures are not stated, book stating the -4 was a two stage engine. The power chart should not be hard to draw, since main particulars are known.

    Hellcat's engine:

    -chart-2800-10-ntrl-jpg

    -chart-2800-10-low-jpg

    -chart-2800-10-jpg
    Last edited by tomo pauk; 04-18-2013 at 02:38 PM.

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