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Performing a snap roll

IL-2 Sturmovik Pilot's Lounge Discuss Performing a snap roll in the Aviation Gaming forums; How do you perform a snap roll correctly? Is this an evasive maneuver done alone or in combination with other ...

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    Member shiro_amada_jp's Avatar
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    Performing a snap roll

    How do you perform a snap roll correctly? Is this an evasive maneuver done alone or in combination with other defensive maneuvers to be more effective?


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    Senior Member Amsel's Avatar
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    I use the rudder and aeileron. For example, left rudder and then a quick roll with the aeileron to the left.

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    Senior Member eddie_brunette's Avatar
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    what plane you using?
    ...to be continued...

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    Member shiro_amada_jp's Avatar
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    I usually fly the A6M5 Zero. When I do snap rolls in the Zero, I apply some pitch input: sudden tug on the stick. The resulting roll is violent and sometimes ends up in a stall. Sometimes it succeeds, but I need to give it some right rudder to stabilize the plane.
    Last edited by shiro_amada_jp; 02-10-2009 at 02:30 AM.

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    Senior Member eddie_brunette's Avatar
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    Well, reading the above, you are doing it right.
    I personally think luck plays a big part with the snap roll.

    I'm no fan of the '51, but it is a very easy plane to "snap" during dogfights and recovers quite easily, but then the '39 also easy to "snap", but way more difficult to recover.

    Personally to me the A6M is a fantastic plane for aerobatics and for ACM, just don’t get shot at, while flying it

    But when you have E/A on your 6, it is very satisfying when you do a successful “snap” and end up shooting his @ss down!

    edd
    ...to be continued...

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    Senior Member drgondog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amsel View Post
    I use the rudder and aeileron. For example, left rudder and then a quick roll with the aeileron to the left.
    That is the way it is done in real life (intentionally).

    In a Mustang at low speed one may also achieve this when in 20 degrees of flap setting, low speed, by stupidly running the throttle up to max power.

    On final approach, the latter technique is non repeatable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drgondog View Post
    On final approach, the latter technique is non repeatable.
    And friends of yours with questionable morals will be consoling your widow.

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    Senior Member drgondog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timshatz View Post
    And friends of yours with questionable morals will be consoling your widow.
    Or impeccable morals - either way I won't be there! So true, Tim.

    This is one of the problems between understanding the manual and having someone with tribal knowledge steering you through the 'shoals'..

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    Member shiro_amada_jp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddie_brunette View Post
    Personally to me the A6M is a fantastic plane for aerobatics and for ACM, just donít get shot at, while flying it
    Yeah, the Zero is a superb fighter when it comes to a turning battle and I like it because it's also a plane where you can learn the "best practices" when it comes to dogfighting. Because the Zero lacks armor and can easily be shot down, you need to be constantly changing directions all the time. You can't fly straight for more than a few seconds. Also, you need to be on guard always, checking your six for an enemy fighter moving in for a well placed shot at you. When engaging another aircraft, you can't be fixated on your target in case an enemy aircraft sneaks up on you.

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    Senior Member GrauGeist's Avatar
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    A few things to consider, when trying this in battle...

    First would be having a good idea of the distance between you and the enemy behind you. Pulling a snap-roll can end up with your adversary flying up your "tail-pipe", especially if their reflexes assume you're about to follow through with your sudden nose-up attitude (a breaking loop, etc).

    The other, is what's your speed at the time? Realistically, you can momentarily generate some extreme G's and you're wings may not like that. The higher the speed, the more force created at the wing root. You could end up in the silk staring down at the falling parts that used to be called an airplane before you tried your stunt.

    And one last thing to think about...how well does your aircraft recover from a stall or spin? If the snap-roll isn't performed properly, you run the risk of a brutal stall. Stalling in combat, at low altitudes or in aircraft like a P-39 is not fun.

    "Look back over the past, with its changing empires that rose and fell, and you can foresee the future."
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    Senior Member eddie_brunette's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiro_amada_jp View Post
    Yeah, the Zero is a superb fighter when it comes to a turning battle and I like it because it's also a plane where you can learn the "best practices" when it comes to dogfighting. Because the Zero lacks armor and can easily be shot down, you need to be constantly changing directions all the time. You can't fly straight for more than a few seconds. Also, you need to be on guard always, checking your six for an enemy fighter moving in for a well placed shot at you. When engaging another aircraft, you can't be fixated on your target in case an enemy aircraft sneaks up on you.
    You are very right, but what you have written MUST be applied to all
    A/C

    edd
    ...to be continued...

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    Quote Originally Posted by drgondog View Post
    Or impeccable morals - either way I won't be there! So true, Tim.

    This is one of the problems between understanding the manual and having someone with tribal knowledge steering you through the 'shoals'..
    Ain't that the truth! Flight sims only go so far, gotta get stick time with an instructor to really learn how to fly. I miss that "seat of the pants" feel in a sim.

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    Member shiro_amada_jp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrauGeist View Post
    The other, is what's your speed at the time? Realistically, you can momentarily generate some extreme G's and you're wings may not like that. The higher the speed, the more force created at the wing root. You could end up in the silk staring down at the falling parts that used to be called an airplane before you tried your stunt.
    Good point. I haven't considered the G-loading at all...

    Quote Originally Posted by GrauGeist View Post
    And one last thing to think about...how well does your aircraft recover from a stall or spin? If the snap-roll isn't performed properly, you run the risk of a brutal stall. Stalling in combat, at low altitudes or in aircraft like a P-39 is not fun.
    The first time I attempted a snap roll, I was flying below 1000m. The plane stalled and I wasn't able to recover in time. So now I fly above 2000m whenever I do this maneuver.

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