Performing a snap roll

[shiro_amada_jp]

How do you perform a snap roll correctly? Is this an evasive maneuver done alone or in combination with other defensive maneuvers to be more effective?

[Amsel]

I use the rudder and aeileron. For example, left rudder and then a quick roll with the aeileron to the left.

[eddie_brunette]

what plane you using?

[shiro_amada_jp]

I usually fly the A6M5 Zero. When I do snap rolls in the Zero, I apply some pitch input: sudden tug on the stick. The resulting roll is violent and sometimes ends up in a stall. Sometimes it succeeds, but I need to give it some right rudder to stabilize the plane.

[eddie_brunette]

Well, reading the above, you are doing it right.
I personally think luck plays a big part with the snap roll.

I'm no fan of the '51, but it is a very easy plane to "snap" during dogfights and recovers quite easily, but then the '39 also easy to "snap", but way more difficult to recover.

Personally to me the A6M is a fantastic plane for aerobatics and for ACM, just don’t get shot at, while flying it

But when you have E/A on your 6, it is very satisfying when you do a successful “snap” and end up shooting his @ss down!

edd

[drgondog]

I use the rudder and aeileron. For example, left rudder and then a quick roll with the aeileron to the left.

That is the way it is done in real life (intentionally).

In a Mustang at low speed one may also achieve this when in 20 degrees of flap setting, low speed, by stupidly running the throttle up to max power.

On final approach, the latter technique is non repeatable.

[timshatz]

On final approach, the latter technique is non repeatable.

And friends of yours with questionable morals will be consoling your widow.

[drgondog]

And friends of yours with questionable morals will be consoling your widow.

Or impeccable morals - either way I won't be there! So true, Tim.

This is one of the problems between understanding the manual and having someone with tribal knowledge steering you through the 'shoals'..

[shiro_amada_jp]

Personally to me the A6M is a fantastic plane for aerobatics and for ACM, just don’t get shot at, while flying it

Yeah, the Zero is a superb fighter when it comes to a turning battle and I like it because it's also a plane where you can learn the "best practices" when it comes to dogfighting. Because the Zero lacks armor and can easily be shot down, you need to be constantly changing directions all the time. You can't fly straight for more than a few seconds. Also, you need to be on guard always, checking your six for an enemy fighter moving in for a well placed shot at you. When engaging another aircraft, you can't be fixated on your target in case an enemy aircraft sneaks up on you.

[GrauGeist]

A few things to consider, when trying this in battle...

First would be having a good idea of the distance between you and the enemy behind you. Pulling a snap-roll can end up with your adversary flying up your "tail-pipe", especially if their reflexes assume you're about to follow through with your sudden nose-up attitude (a breaking loop, etc).

The other, is what's your speed at the time? Realistically, you can momentarily generate some extreme G's and you're wings may not like that. The higher the speed, the more force created at the wing root. You could end up in the silk staring down at the falling parts that used to be called an airplane before you tried your stunt.

And one last thing to think about...how well does your aircraft recover from a stall or spin? If the snap-roll isn't performed properly, you run the risk of a brutal stall. Stalling in combat, at low altitudes or in aircraft like a P-39 is not fun.

[eddie_brunette]

Yeah, the Zero is a superb fighter when it comes to a turning battle and I like it because it's also a plane where you can learn the "best practices" when it comes to dogfighting. Because the Zero lacks armor and can easily be shot down, you need to be constantly changing directions all the time. You can't fly straight for more than a few seconds. Also, you need to be on guard always, checking your six for an enemy fighter moving in for a well placed shot at you. When engaging another aircraft, you can't be fixated on your target in case an enemy aircraft sneaks up on you.

You are very right, but what you have written MUST be applied to all
A/C

edd

[timshatz]

Or impeccable morals - either way I won't be there! So true, Tim.

This is one of the problems between understanding the manual and having someone with tribal knowledge steering you through the 'shoals'..

Ain't that the truth! Flight sims only go so far, gotta get stick time with an instructor to really learn how to fly. I miss that "seat of the pants" feel in a sim.

[shiro_amada_jp]

The other, is what's your speed at the time? Realistically, you can momentarily generate some extreme G's and you're wings may not like that. The higher the speed, the more force created at the wing root. You could end up in the silk staring down at the falling parts that used to be called an airplane before you tried your stunt.

Good point. I haven't considered the G-loading at all...

And one last thing to think about...how well does your aircraft recover from a stall or spin? If the snap-roll isn't performed properly, you run the risk of a brutal stall. Stalling in combat, at low altitudes or in aircraft like a P-39 is not fun.

The first time I attempted a snap roll, I was flying below 1000m. The plane stalled and I wasn't able to recover in time. So now I fly above 2000m whenever I do this maneuver.