Centurion V. T-62.....

[Lucky13]

Which was the better one? Just being curious here.

[timshatz]

Centurian. IMHO.

Didn't the T62 have a problem with the autoloader where the gunner's arm sometimes ended up in the breach, sans the gunner.

[Glider]

Centurion. This was the tank of choice before the next generation, Chieftain, T72 M1 ect.
Compared to the T62 it had a better fire control, armour, rate of fire and was very accurate when firing on the move. It was a bigger target than the T62 and if you get close then the T62 was dangerous and should not be underestimated. However overall the Centurion was the better bet.

I think I am right in saying that a couple of M1's were disabled by T62's during the Gulf war. Of course hundreds of Iraqi tanks were lost in return but the gun was pretty good for the time.

[Lucky13]

Didn't even know that the T-62 had autoloader!

[timshatz]

Didn't even know that the T-62 had autoloader!

Might have it wrong, not a quoteable on that. Just seem to remember it.

[Glider]

It didn't, I believe the T72 was the one with the auto loader

[tomo pauk]

T-64 was the 1st one with autoloader, plus a new kind of engine & suspension. Didn't worked well for Russkies, and it was replaced with T-80 in production & units. T-62 is relative with T-54/55 and T-72 (ie. mainstream line of Soviet tanks).

Back OT, it's all about what kind of fire control the tanks have installed. Guess Centurion would've win on greater distances, with it's edge reducing as distances shorten.

[michaelmaltby]

As I recall from reading, the Centurion was outstanding in Korea and played a very effective role in the 'Hill War' in the later stages. They had an amazing ability to mount steep slopes and would position themselves on the top. With advanced fire control they could place rounds into Chinese firing slits across the valley. Centurions also served with great effectiveness (modified) in the IDF in the '67 war.

Great tank.

MM

[parsifal]

Centurions also did well in Vietnam, in the Jungle. T-62s were more of a "brekthrough" tank, in the typical Soviet style of blitzkrieg......they generally were handled roughly when in combat against western armies, though the Israelis used them (and the T-55) quite effectively6 when they captured them. So they were probably an okay tank....just badly used by the wallies driving them

[michaelmaltby]

"... ....just badly used by the wallies driving them" ... who were trained by the Soviets. But no amount of training would motivate them into "soviets". That said, the Republican Guard was certainly prepared to die for Saddam in GWI.

MM

[timshatz]

Would also go with the Centurian. On top of all the good reasons listed above, it was also a much better tank to be in, ergonomically. Though I've never been in either, I've heard plenty of horror stories about Soviet tanks and the lack of any kind of space or creature comforts.

[Glider]

Back OT, it's all about what kind of fire control the tanks have installed. Guess Centurion would've win on greater distances, with it's edge reducing as distances shorten.

The interesting thing about the rangefinders are that those on the early Centurions with the 105mm was how simple they were. Initially just a ranging machine gun with ammo that matched the ballistics of the main gun. The problems were two fold
a) They let the target know that they were about to be shot at
b) It took time to get the target

When Israel were first equipped with the 105mm they took a more pragmatic approach and ditched all (apart from the basic telescopic sight) the rangefinders. They trained their commanders on how to roughtly estimate the range. The gunners were trained to fire three rounds in quick succession at three different elevations which were always the same. The ballistics of the gun were such that one of the three rounds was almost certain to hit the enemy tank. So if the commander estimated the range as being quite long the gunner would start at the highest elevation and work down. That way the target stood an excellent chance of being hit with one of the first two rounds. If I remember correctly this worked well out to about 2,500 meters which was more than sufficient in the days before laser rangfinders and if you weren't shooting up or down hill.

[Airframes]

The Israelis also painted a white line down the centre of the gun tube, to assist in rapid target alignment, which was very effective apparently.

[timshatz]

Good post guys, had no idea about the way the Israelis handled their tank tactics.

Anyplace where more of that is posted. Interesting stuff.

[tomo pauk]

The tank-net.org is probably for tanks as this board is for (WW2) planes.
If someone could point to a book or two about Israel/Arab tank warfare, that would be cool too.