 | F-22 vs....| Modern Discuss F-22 vs.... in the Other Eras forums; Originally Posted by Soren
FLYBOYJ,
I never doubted that the F-22 can pull 9 G's, nearly every fighter ... |
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03-26-2008, 05:36 PM
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#91 | | Der Crewchief
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Originally Posted by Soren  FLYBOYJ,
I never doubted that the F-22 can pull 9 G's, nearly every fighter can do that, its holding those G's which is the problem. Also seeing that the F-22 doesn't have the luxury of the Libelle suit I don't even see how any pilot could claim that F-22 can hold 9 G's, and none have so far. | Where is your proof that the F-22 can not pull the same G's for as long? Quit speculating.
__________________  US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | 
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03-26-2008, 06:01 PM
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#92 | | Solopsist Extraordinaire
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Originally Posted by lesofprimus This is getting old.... And repetitive....
When the TiffyII and the Raptor go head to head at Red Flag, the truth shall set us all free....
My money is on the Raptor, in every catagory... | Were it so, Les. Like the Indians with Su-27s, the intent of the exercises is not to humiliate nor aire shortcomings in technology or training. Any US sponsored exercises with allies will be PC. And rightly so. Keep the enemy thinking I say.
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03-27-2008, 04:51 AM
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#93 | | Senior Member
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Originally Posted by Evil_Merlin The MiG-29 CANNOT do the Pugachev's Cobra unless it starts at a 30 degree entry angle. | Actually the later versions equipped with the FBW are able to perform the cobra Quote:
Originally Posted by Soren I didn't get any ideas buddy, the EF Typhoon has the best & most sophisticated pilots interface in the world | I had once an opportunity to sit in EF driver seat with avionics turned on - I could barely read the gauges on the both MFCDs)) Just my 5 cents) | |
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03-27-2008, 05:03 AM
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#94 | | Minister of Whoopass
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Originally Posted by Matt Were it so, Les. Like the Indians with Su-27s, the intent of the exercises is not to humiliate nor aire shortcomings in technology or training. Any US sponsored exercises with allies will be PC. And rightly so. Keep the enemy thinking I say. | While the Service may be quiet about some of the results, the pilots always blurt out tasty quotes.... There will be some coming that will solidify the Raptor as the premier fighter in the skies, unquestioned...
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03-27-2008, 09:33 AM
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#95 | | Senior Member
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Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ Oh now we're going to move to the suit? The USAF evaluated the Libelle in 2000 at Edwards and may eventually use it as well. Here's some other info... http://www.acc.af.mil/shared/media/d...070413-039.wmv Code One Magazine Fourth Quarter 2004: The Well-Dressed Raptor Pilot
For the most part the USAF is not advertising information about the suit to be used on the F-22 ATAGS
Next Merrell dons the CSU-23/P Advanced Technology Anti-G Suit, or ATAGS. Like the Combat Edge vest, ATAGS (currently only worn by F/A-22 pilots) provides increased protection from the effects of prolonged high-g environments. As a stand-alone garment, ATAGS provides a sixty percent increase in aircrew endurance. Combined with Combat Edge, it increases aircrew endurance by 350 percent over the current g-suit.
From what I understand the Libelle (or something similar) has been used by several European countries for a few years now and although they seem state of the art I see no real advantage over what is being used in the F-22 if we're now going from comparing the aircraft to support equipment. If the USAF decided to adoubt the Libelle there goes the "sustained 9g argument," but then again what good is the g suit going to be when you're shot down by something you can't see? | Only problem is that those tests are very suspect as they didn't achieve the same results as other European users.
You can read it here on Autoflug's own site: Autoflug Libelle GmbH
I highly suggest reading it all.
In short: The Libelle is a very big advantage for the EF pilot over the F-22 pilot.
__________________  We have built a total of about 1250 of this aircraft (Me-262), but only fifty were allowed to be used as fighters - as interceptors. And out of this fifty, there were never more than 25 operational. So we had only a very, very few.
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03-27-2008, 09:49 AM
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#96 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
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Originally Posted by Soren Only problem is that those tests are very suspect as they didn't achieve the same results as other European users.
You can read it here on Autoflug's own site: Autoflug Libelle GmbH
I highly suggest reading it all. |
Why would they even say that?  The tests conducted at Edwards gave a very positive assessment of the Libelle (from what I read on the link posted by the USAF) and it would not surprise me if the USAF either buys the Libelle or has a subcontractor make them here - at the same time little is said about the suit currently used on the F-22 and how long a pilot could sustain a 9.5G turn.
BTW the site is referencin 1998 tests - the site I posted addressed tests conducted in 2000
It's spring break here at USAFA - there's at least one instructor here who has been around the F-22. When everyone returns next week I'm going to corner him and ask him about the F-22 suit and the current suits used by F-15 and F-16 pilots. Quote:
Originally Posted by Soren In short: The Libelle is a very big advantage for the EF pilot over the F-22 pilot. | Providing the EF pilot could get close enough to even attept to dogfight an F-22....
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Last edited by FLYBOYJ : 03-27-2008 at 09:55 AM.
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03-27-2008, 09:57 AM
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#97 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
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03-27-2008, 12:01 PM
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#98 | | Senior Member
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Country: | Its suspect because it was done by Americans. I've not been around here long, but I've been around long enough to know Soren is very anti-American biased. | |
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03-27-2008, 12:02 PM
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#99 | | Senior Member
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Originally Posted by Soren
In short: The Libelle is a very big advantage for the EF pilot over the F-22 pilot.
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What a bunch of flawed logic. Thrust vectoring is a very big advantage for the F-22 pilot over the Typhoon II pilot. | |
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03-27-2008, 12:09 PM
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#100 | | Senior Member
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Originally Posted by Evil_Merlin Its suspect because it was done by Americans. I've not been around here long, but I've been around long enough to know Soren is very anti-American biased. | Sure and that's also why I said that the F4U-4 is amongst the top 3 fighters of WW2, right ??
Anti-American
__________________ We have built a total of about 1250 of this aircraft (Me-262), but only fifty were allowed to be used as fighters - as interceptors. And out of this fifty, there were never more than 25 operational. So we had only a very, very few.
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03-27-2008, 12:10 PM
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#101 | | Senior Member
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Originally Posted by Evil_Merlin What a bunch of flawed logic. Thrust vectoring is a very big advantage for the F-22 pilot over the Typhoon II pilot. | Oh yeah its flawed logic that a pilot which can stand the most G's can pull the tightest turns ??
__________________ We have built a total of about 1250 of this aircraft (Me-262), but only fifty were allowed to be used as fighters - as interceptors. And out of this fifty, there were never more than 25 operational. So we had only a very, very few.
- Adolf Galland | |
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03-27-2008, 01:02 PM
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#102 | | Senior Member
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Originally Posted by Soren Oh yeah its flawed logic that a pilot which can stand the most G's can pull the tightest turns ?? | Once again, do you have ANY proof the F-22's pilots cannot pull the highest turns?
I didn't think so. | |
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03-27-2008, 01:23 PM
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#103 | | Der Crewchief
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Originally Posted by Soren Oh yeah its flawed logic that a pilot which can stand the most G's can pull the tightest turns ?? |
Well please show proof that the EF Pilot can definatly 100% pull tighter turns and higher G's than the F-22 Pilot.
Come facts please, not speculations. It needs to be proof that compares the F-22 to the EF.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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03-27-2008, 06:20 PM
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#104 | | Solopsist Extraordinaire
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Originally Posted by Evil_Merlin Its suspect because it was done by Americans. I've not been around here long, but I've been around long enough to know Soren is very anti-American biased. | EM, I'm on your side. Just keep the fangs in. National pride is flaw we all suffer from. Including me. Even PlanD has to remind me of that everynow and then.
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03-28-2008, 10:49 PM
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#105 | | Member
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