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03-16-2006, 10:42 PM
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#271 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
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Originally Posted by loomaluftwaffe and they didnt get anywhere, just wasted some fuel | No - it was a game that tested the will of both sides - valuable photo infomation was also gathered during these intercepts....
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03-16-2006, 10:46 PM
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#272 | | Senior Member
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Country:  | ok fine, besides tomcats use up more fuel dont they? and they're just gonna escort them till they get the hell out of your backyard
__________________  "The German Luftwaffe always fought without any reserves. This is also the reason why we have pilots with extremely high numbers of victories."
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03-16-2006, 10:49 PM
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#273 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
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Originally Posted by loomaluftwaffe ok fine, besides tomcats use up more fuel dont they? and they're just gonna escort them till they get the hell out of your backyard | No the could hook up with a tanker if they had to and continue on - the F-14 had pretty long legs...
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03-16-2006, 10:51 PM
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#274 | | Senior Member
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Country: | so could the lightning right? see that pic over there?
__________________ "The German Luftwaffe always fought without any reserves. This is also the reason why we have pilots with extremely high numbers of victories."
- General der Jagdflieger Adolf Galland" | |
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03-16-2006, 10:52 PM
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#275 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
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03-17-2006, 01:38 AM
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#276 | | Senior Member
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Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ Quote: |
Originally Posted by loomaluftwaffe and they didnt get anywhere, just wasted some fuel | No - it was a game that tested the will of both sides - valuable photo infomation was also gathered during these intercepts.... | You guys had been winning the spy plane game for years, first the U2 then the Blackbird.
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03-17-2006, 05:25 AM
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#277 | | Senior Member
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Originally Posted by 102first_hussars Quote: |
Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ Quote: |
Originally Posted by loomaluftwaffe and they didnt get anywhere, just wasted some fuel | No - it was a game that tested the will of both sides - valuable photo infomation was also gathered during these intercepts.... | You guys had been winning the spy plane game for years, first the U2 then the Blackbird. | Very true hussars although the Soviets still tried and didn't get very far...
__________________  "Success is not Final, Failure is not Fatal, it is the Courage to Continue that Counts"
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03-18-2006, 06:58 AM
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#278 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: MK UK
Posts: 1,625
| Both the Lightning and Tomcat were great planes each with its own S&W.
Notwithstanding the Libyan GoS incident, neither plane got to really prove its potential in actual combat (unlike the F15).
What they both did was deter and demonstrate the determination of their respective operators. The Russkies were testing the RAF's defences but both sides likely never expected to fight. But if they did not launch the alert birds then it might show the Soviets we were weak. Besides they would have come in with barrage jamming etc not one bomber at a time. Both sides knew they had obsolescent machinery too in the age of the ICBM and Polaris etc.
The F14 did similar work protecting the carriers.
BTW I read in a Tomcat book that the USAF kept the F14 back during the second GW so they could rack up the kills. So that distorts history somewhat. The Lightning may have also seen action in the Middle East but not much is on record.
The RAF never shot down an enemy in wartime with its jet fighters of the past 3 decades methinks. Whether it is the Lightning or F4 [Tornado too so far] there have been no pure kills let alone RAF aces!
I am trying to think of the last pure A2A kill by the RAF. The Falklands was a FAA affair. Maybe a GR3 hacked down a Herc or helo but did no true dogfighting. Besides it's not a fighter/interceptor, it's a GA plane.
The RAF's Hunters and Javelins did little A2A either. So it might boil down to a Meteor hacking down a V1. Not much return for all that it costs but that's the downside of deterrence. | |
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03-18-2006, 09:36 AM
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#279 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
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Originally Posted by Royzee617 BTW I read in a Tomcat book that the USAF kept the F14 back during the second GW so they could rack up the kills. | Not true - I believe during GW2 several F-14s were being used as a bomber. As far as kills, I don't think there was a single air-to-air engagement during GW2, the Iraqi Air Force basically didn't exist...
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03-18-2006, 01:35 PM
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#280 | | Senior Member
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| You're correct - the book where I read that was about the 'Bombcat'. Shows how good Grumman's design was. But no chance for A2A.
MW I have been re-reading a book on the Hunter. The only action the RAF planes saw was G2A. Some A2A by IAF et al. quite a few lost too.
So I suspect zero kills by Raf jets against other jet fighters. The last A2A was likely a RAF pilot over the Falklands. But flying an FAA plane. | |
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03-18-2006, 01:37 PM
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#281 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: MK UK
Posts: 1,625
| Or maybe it was that Jaguar shot down by an F4 on an exercise. Or was it v-v? | |
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03-18-2006, 01:40 PM
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#282 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: MK UK
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| http://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co...m/history.html
" With increasing recognition that the Phantom was much better suited than the Lightning to defending the UK's airspace and the surprise success of the Jaguar programme, RAF Germany in particular began to lose its Phantoms, which were re-tasked with air defence while Jaguars took over the ground attack and recon roles. Revenge of a sort was had when one Phantom shot down a Jaguar over Germany - it was, of course, an accident. So the story goes, anyway!" | |
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03-18-2006, 01:47 PM
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#283 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: MK UK
Posts: 1,625
| http://www.kmike.com/oz/77/MK8OPS.htm
Meteors in Vietnam.... but they're Aussies... no RAF fighter planes in 'nam... | |
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03-18-2006, 01:53 PM
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#284 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: MK UK
Posts: 1,625
| "But have the RAF or ADA produced even one ace? How about Israel- though they are secretive about pilot identity".
See: http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/arc...hp?t-6266.html
lots of interesting, if heated, discussion about PAF vs IAF etc. | |
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03-18-2006, 02:12 PM
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#285 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: MK UK
Posts: 1,625
| Chinook CH-47c of CAB 601 destroyed on the ground near Mount Kent by Flt Lt. Hare RAF. Flying a Harrier GR3.
Hare destroyed the Chinook using his 30mm cannon. In the same attack Sqn Ldr Pook badly damaged a Puma ( SA 330L ) of CAB 601 also on the ground near Mount Kent, again using his GR3s 30mm cannon. Pook returned to finish the job of on the 26th of May, destroying the helicopter. | |
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