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03-24-2006, 05:47 AM
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#316 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 28,578
Country:  | I think the Su-27 is actually more capable than the F-15, however with the avionix package and weapons package of the F-15 it evens itself out. Combined with a good pilot and the F-15 could get the edge.
__________________  US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | 
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03-24-2006, 06:47 AM
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#317 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,511
Country:  | Quote: |
Originally Posted by syscom3 Quote: |
Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ Quote: |
Originally Posted by syscom3 I say the F4 has a better combat record than the F15 | An F-15 was NEVER lost in combat!!!F-4s were shot down in air-to-air over Vietnam, Israel and Iran.... | But then, the F15 has never fought in a high intensity conflict. | Bekka Valley!!! At one point there were over 200 aircraft batteling in the air at the same time!!! That's about as high intensity as it gets!!!!!
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT"  | |
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03-24-2006, 06:52 AM
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#318 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,511
Country: | Folks - the newer Russian fighters mean very little. I'm not being nationalistic but the F-15 is still reining supreme. Cope India just proved that with the newer Russian equipment the F-15 can't take on 6 to 1 odds any more but could come out ahead at 2 to 1 and will more likely win on a one on one engagement with these new Russian machines.
Loosing that 6 to 1 capability is the reason why you see the USAF wanting the F-22 so bad - many want to keep that edge....
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03-24-2006, 07:34 AM
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#319 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,848
Country:  | too bad, is it because of the skill of the Ruskie pilots? or the missiles? iveread on another post saying that russian missiles were better
__________________  "The German Luftwaffe always fought without any reserves. This is also the reason why we have pilots with extremely high numbers of victories."
- General der Jagdflieger Adolf Galland"  | |
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03-24-2006, 07:46 AM
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#320 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 7,863
| Quote:
Bekka Valley!!! At one point there were over 200 aircraft batteling in the air at the same time!!! That's about as high intensity as it gets!!!!!
| Thats a single battle.
And the Bekka valley was nothing like flying over Hanoi/Haiphong or over the Suez/Golan heights in 1973.
The F4 performed well as a recon, fighter-bomber and a wild weasel. The F15 has only flown combat missions as a fighter (and yes I know about the F15E)
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03-24-2006, 08:43 AM
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#321 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,511
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by syscom3 Quote:
Bekka Valley!!! At one point there were over 200 aircraft batteling in the air at the same time!!! That's about as high intensity as it gets!!!!!
| Thats a single battle.
And the Bekka valley was nothing like flying over Hanoi/Haiphong or over the Suez/Golan heights in 1973.
The F4 performed well as a recon, fighter-bomber and a wild weasel. The F15 has only flown combat missions as a fighter (and yes I know about the F15E) | The Bekka Valley went on over several days - it wasn't a single battle, it went on for close to a week... http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/a...89/hurley.html
And yes, the F-4 did perform well in multi roles, the fact remains it did get shot down in air to air, one could argue the environment, pilot skill and scenario, but the fact remains the F-15s air-to-air combat record is unsurpassed...
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT" | |
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03-24-2006, 01:55 PM
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#322 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 28,578
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by syscom3 Quote:
Bekka Valley!!! At one point there were over 200 aircraft batteling in the air at the same time!!! That's about as high intensity as it gets!!!!!
| Thats a single battle.
And the Bekka valley was nothing like flying over Hanoi/Haiphong or over the Suez/Golan heights in 1973.
The F4 performed well as a recon, fighter-bomber and a wild weasel. The F15 has only flown combat missions as a fighter (and yes I know about the F15E) | You have to look at this way. If the F-15 had been around during the F-4's reign as the best there was, the F-15 would have put the F-4 to shame when going up against he fighters that the F-4 had to. Now take an F-4 and put it up against the advanced fighters that the F-15 would have to up against today and where do you think the F-4 is going to stand?
Who cares what kind of fighting the F-4 did during Vietnam. It was engaged against different aircraft than the F-15 will be up against and the F-15 would outperform the F-4 against them.
Therefore logical reasoning states: F-15 is better.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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03-24-2006, 02:51 PM
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#323 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 7,863
| What made the F15 superior was its engines. Put those F100 engines in an F4 and the Phantom has a whole different flight regime.
One other thing..... the F4 was also a carrier fighter. The F15 isnt.
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03-24-2006, 02:53 PM
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#324 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,051
Country:  | The avionics of the F-15 are also superior . The argument about the engines is age old , it's like saying that if you put the engines of a F-15 in a EE Lightning it'd be better ... that would be awesome to see though .
__________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004  To those in that club. | |
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03-24-2006, 02:53 PM
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#325 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 28,578
Country: | Point being?
Do you really think that a F-4 would beat a F-15 in a fight?
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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03-24-2006, 02:54 PM
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#326 | | Your ad here. ;)
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moorpark, CA
Posts: 12,145
Country: | Man, if you did that, he Lightning would climb like nothing else. That would have been cool!
__________________  http://www.vg-photo.com Wherever their bones may lie, the courage of heroes is consecrated in the hearts and engraved in the history of the free. Lt Col Honner DSO MC, 39th Commander speaking of the dead from the battle of Kokoda. | |
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03-24-2006, 02:56 PM
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#327 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,511
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by syscom3 What made the F15 superior was its engines. Put those F100 engines in an F4 and the Phantom has a whole different flight regime. | Yea - it's called mach lawndart!
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT" | |
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03-24-2006, 03:21 PM
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#328 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,051
Country: | They're lighter engines with about 5,000 lbs more thrust ... ! I'd like to see something out-climb the Lightning then , I bet a Saturn-5 rocket would be struggling !
__________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004 To those in that club. | |
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03-24-2006, 09:18 PM
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#329 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,848
Country: | yikes
__________________ "The German Luftwaffe always fought without any reserves. This is also the reason why we have pilots with extremely high numbers of victories."
- General der Jagdflieger Adolf Galland" | |
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03-25-2006, 02:42 AM
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#330 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Royal Deeside/St Andrews, Scotland, UK (atm Pretoria, South Africa)
Posts: 10,819
Country: | That would of been an interesting race...
__________________  "Success is not Final, Failure is not Fatal, it is the Courage to Continue that Counts"
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